Political endorsement

DeaconDean · Mar 25, 2008

I'm sure by now everybody is familiar with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

Obama has called the religious community out in support of his campain.

My question is this:

At one time in American history, presidentual canidates, and indeed anyone seeking office, courted the pulpit, they were literally scared of the pulpit. Scared of what the men of God had to say about the political canidates.

Within the Southern Baptist Conference, it is a "rule" that politics are to be "left out" of the pulpit. If it is reported that any Pastor has used the pulpit to endorse one canidate over another, and the local association not to mention the SBC find out, then the "pastor" is subject to censurship, loss of his church, revocation of his licesence to preach, and in most likelyhood, whatever it is that qualifies him as a "Reverend," revoked.

In essence, he is subject to being "kicked out" of the pastorate.

So why is thepublic, and especially the association Jeremiah Wright is assciated with, not in arms over this?

many others have PMed Rush Limbaugh with this question, and it has been asked, but the issue has been skirted.

Why?

God Bless

Till all are one.

edie19 · Mar 26, 2008

Dean,

You know my viewpoint - I don't look to the pulpit for my politics and I don't look to the Oval Office for my theology.

That said - my folks attend a UCC church (they split between my dad's church and his wife's church). Anyhow - if I understood correctly, she (my dad's wife) said the UCC (as a denomination) is endorsing Obama, that their (my parent's) church's pastor prayed for his campaign - not just for him (I have no problem with praying for our politicians - in fact I think that's a good idea).

Why is it that separation of church and state never comes up at these times - if a church is going to actively support a political campaign then they darn well need to have their tax exempt status looked at!!!

david01 · Mar 25, 2008

The UCC is a relatively loose confederation of four denominations with their only basic tie being ecumenism. In general, they are very liberal in theology as well as in politics. They are in a hot race with the Unitarian/Universalts (who split off the Congregational Church around 1800) for being the most "open-minded" and liberal. The reality, of course, as evidenced by Mr. Wright, is that they are amazingly narrow and closeminded, tolerating nothing resembling conversativism. The endorsement should surprise nobody. However, the fallout from it bears watching.

david01 · Mar 26, 2008

The UCC is a relatively loose confederation of four denominations with their only basic tie being ecumenism. In general, they are very liberal in theology as well as in politics. They are in a hot race with the Unitarian/Universalts (who split off the Congregational Church around 1800) for being the most "open-minded" and liberal. The reality, of course, as evidenced by Mr. Wright, is that they are amazingly narrow and closeminded, tolerating nothing resembling conversativism. The endorsement should surprise nobody. However, the fallout from it bears watching.

arunma · Mar 26, 2008

Apparently there seems to be a double standard in politics. When preachers endorse Republicans, they are causing division on Scriptural grounds. When they endorse Democrats, it's somehow not all that bad. Personally I think we need to see that American pastors ought not to be endorsing any political parties, not because our Christianity shouldn't influence our politics, but because neither party is the obvious choice for Bible-believing Christians.

TimRout · Mar 27, 2008

While I'm not an American, I can't help but wonder if perhaps there are some constitutional issues that need to be factored in. Here in Canada, it is illegal for me as a Provincially licensed Pastor to endorse a candidate from the pulpit.

MsScarlett · Mar 26, 2008

Jerry Falwell did it. Pat Robertson did it. John Hagey is doing it.
These endorsements have been a part of my life, so that's why I'm not up in arms about it.
Plus Obama is a member of Rev. Wright's own church. I would definitely expect him to support him!

HumbleMan · Mar 27, 2008

I've never been a fan of the censureship imposed by the IRS and endured by American churches. I believe that the church should talk about issues facing the people.

That being said, I don't think that the church should endorse candidates. The church should recognize the issues facing the people and discuss what God says about it, then pray. Pray that He installs the leaders that would follow His will. And pray that we, as children walking in faith, accept that He said He installed those leaders.

HumbleMan · Mar 27, 2008

DeaconDean · Mar 29, 2008

My point is, for almost 120 years, the political process tried its best to risk not offending the church, the church could kill any canidates chance for office.

For 120 years, presidentual canidates knew that the church could make or break their chances.

But now, today, a preacher can't even tell his parishioners to get out and vote without risking having their ministry taken away. Yet now, Obama can get a preacher to come out and speak publicly for him, and nothing is done about it.

You let a Baptist preacher come out and endorse either a Democrat or Republican and they'll take their church, license, and everything they have done for God.

Why is it, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright is allowed to get away with this while others get censured?

Why is it "ok" for him to do this, while others it isn't?

Are we really taking the "politically correct" to the extreme?

God Bless

Till all are one.

toirewadokodesuka · Apr 10, 2008

Why has Rev. Jeremiah Wright gotten away with it? Politics is about necessity and not truth. It is about what the people need to hear, not what they should hear... Politics is a messy place indeed.

Hammster · Apr 11, 2008

DeaconDean said:
I'm sure by now everybody is familiar with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

Obama has called the religious community out in support of his campain.

My question is this:

At one time in American history, presidentual canidates, and indeed anyone seeking office, courted the pulpit, they were literally scared of the pulpit. Scared of what the men of God had to say about the political canidates.

Within the Southern Baptist Conference, it is a "rule" that politics are to be "left out" of the pulpit. If it is reported that any Pastor has used the pulpit to endorse one canidate over another, and the local association not to mention the SBC find out, then the "pastor" is subject to censurship, loss of his church, revocation of his licesence to preach, and in most likelyhood, whatever it is that qualifies him as a "Reverend," revoked.

In essence, he is subject to being "kicked out" of the pastorate.

So why is thepublic, and especially the association Jeremiah Wright is assciated with, not in arms over this?

many others have PMed Rush Limbaugh with this question, and it has been asked, but the issue has been skirted.

Why?

God Bless

Till all are one.

I couldn't find where you got your info that the SBC has the authority to take a church from a pastor. Could you elaborate and show links or something? This is new information to me.

DeaconDean · Apr 12, 2008

Hammster said:
I couldn't find where you got your info that the SBC has the authority to take a church from a pastor. Could you elaborate and show links or something? This is new information to me.

Just go ask the president of your "local" Baptist association first.

He'll tell you this.

God Bless

Till all are one.

DeaconDean · Apr 13, 2008

Hammster said:
I couldn't find where you got your info that the SBC has the authority to take a church from a pastor. Could you elaborate and show links or something? This is new information to me.

The Internal Revenue Service has this rule in place:

To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.

http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=96099,00.html

They also say:

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violation of this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise tax.
Certain activities or expenditures may not be prohibited depending on the facts and circumstances. For example, certain voter education activities (including the presenting public forums and publishing voter education guides) conducted in a non-partisan manner do not constitute prohibited political campaign activity.
In addition, other activities intended to encourage people to participate in the electoral process, such as voter registration and get-out-the-vote drives, would not constitute prohibited political campaign activity if conducted in a non-partisan manner. On the other hand, voter education or registration activities with evidence of bias that: (a) would favor one candidate over another; (b) oppose a candidate in some manner; or (c) have the effect of favoring a candidate or group of candidates, will constitute prohibited participation or intervention.

http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=163395,00.html

So not only is it wrong from the Associations standard, but the government says you cannot use your church, your pulpit, your office as Pastor, to endorse any political canidate.

God Bless

Till all are one.

MsScarlett · Apr 13, 2008

DeaconDean said:
You let a Baptist preacher come out and endorse either a Democrat or Republican and they'll take their church, license, and everything they have done for God.

I have to reiterate my previous post. Jerry Falwell was a Baptist preacher, it was common practice for him to endorse candidates, and nothing was taken from him. His church is still thriving.

DeaconDean · Apr 13, 2008

MsScarlett said:
I have to reiterate my previous post. Jerry Falwell was a Baptist preacher, it was common practice for him to endorse candidates, and nothing was taken from him. His church is still thriving.

Jerry Falwell does not belong to any Baptist association.

He pulled his church from the SBC.

In October 1996, Jerry Falwell, pastor of the Thomas Road Baptist Church and president of Liberty University, Lynchburg, Virginia, announced they would begin making monthly contributions to the newly formed conservative group within the Virginia state Southern Baptist Convention. In announcing this, he said that he was happy to join hands with the SBC, testifying, "[W]E FULLY INTEND TO TAKE OUR PERMANENT STAND WITH THE NATIONAL AND VIRGINIA BIBLE-BELIEVING CONSERVATIVES WHO HAVE RESCUED THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION FROM THEOLOGICAL LIBERALISM" (Baptist Press, October 24, 1996).

The Thomas Road Baptist Church's contribution to the Southern Baptist conservatives of Virginia qualifies it to send messengers to the SBC annual meeting and allows members of the church to serve on trustee boards of the SBC. This right was exercised in July 1998 when Dr. Falwell and other representatives of the Thomas Road Baptist Church attended the annual convention in Salt Lake City. Falwell is also aligned with the Baptist Bible Fellowship, a fellowship of pastors of independent Baptist churches.

LIBERALISM IN THE SBC IN VIRGINIA

CONSIDER, AS ANOTHER EXAMPLE THAT LIBERALISM REMAINS IN THE SBC, THE SITUATION IN VIRGINIA. The new Virginia SBC apparatus was formed a few years ago and is called the Southern Baptist Conservatives of Virginia (SBCV). In 1996, the SBCV voted to become a separate convention. It works alongside of the older Baptist General Association of Virginia (BGAV).

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/liberalsbc.htm

And since when is it "because one person does it, make it right?"

I'm telling you what will happen within the Greater Gaston Baptist Association. I can't answer for the actions of other Baptist acssociations.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Hammster · Apr 14, 2008

DeaconDean said:
Just go ask the president of your "local" Baptist association first.

He'll tell you this.

God Bless

Till all are one.

So you are saying that it is a legal proceeding based on IRS rules. That much I know. I thought you were saying that the SBC would take a church away from a pastor. That was what I was questioning.

DeaconDean · Apr 14, 2008

It is most common knowledge that the SBC will shun, and/or kick you out of the Association for doing such a thing.

And the local association, least wise here, will revoke your licesence to preach, and kill your ordination.

We don't do anything for encouraging people to exercise their right to vote, but we cannot tell them who to vote for, nor endorse any canidate.

Why are you taking me to task over this?

God Bless

Till all are one.

Hammster · Apr 15, 2008

DeaconDean said:
It is most common knowledge that the SBC will shun, and/or kick you out of the Association for doing such a thing.

And the local association, least wise here, will revoke your licesence to preach, and kill your ordination.

We don't do anything for encouraging people to exercise their right to vote, but we cannot tell them who to vote for, nor endorse any canidate.

Why are you taking me to task over this?

God Bless

Till all are one.

I wasn't.

MsScarlett · Apr 16, 2008

You first asked why no one was up in arms over Rev. Wright.
I answered that pastors have made political endorsements in the past.

You then implied a Baptist preacher would never get away with that.
I said one would, and has.
You did not clarify that my example had to be within one certain Baptist association.

And I am not saying that others did it, therefore it's OK.

I am saying that some of us noticed this trend a long time ago, and were disturbed by it, and couldn't believe some of these organizations kept their tax-exempt status.
But they did.

So I certainly didn't think anything of it for a pastor to speak in favor of his own congregant.

Political endorsement

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