Plurality of Elders?

[tomana]

There is a Reformed Baptist felowship a few blocks from my place and I attended the services for a few months, then stopped going for now. They said they have a Plurality of Elders (seven pastors) and that that's how it was in the NT chuches but I can't find that in scripture. 1 Tim 3 and Titus say a bishop (singular) and then says deacons - plural, so I know there was a plurality of deacons but where does it say bishops when referring to how a church is to be set up?

What verses confirm Plurality of Elders (pastors) in a church ?

 

[JM]

Source:

Congregational Polity for Baptists | Abraham's Seed

The following is a summary of AH Strong’s argument for a congregational church polity and it comes from volume 3 of his text of Systematic Theology.


The volume may be downloaded here:
AH Strong, Systematic Theology, Volumes 1,2, and 3


Congregationalism

Cambridge Platform (About), 1648, 10th chapter — “So far as Christ is concerned, church government is a monarchy. So far as the brotherhood of the church is concerned, it resembles a democracy.”
Proof that the government of the church is Congregational.

1. From the duty of the whole church to preserve unity in its action.
   • Romans 12:16 — “Be of the same mind one toward another”
   • 1 Corinthians 1:10 — “Now I beseech you…that ye all speak the same thing,
     and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfected together in
     the same mind and in the same judgment”
   • 2 Corinthians 13:11 — “be of the same mind”
   • Ephesians 4:3 — “giving diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the
     bond of peace”
   • Philippians 1:27 — “that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one soul striving
     for the faith of the gospel”
   • 1 Peter 3:8 — “be ye all like minded.”
2. From the responsibility of the whole church for maintaining pure doctrine and practice.
   • 1 Timothy 3:15 — “the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the
     truth”
   • Jude 3 — “exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once
     for all delivered unto the saints”
   • Revelations 2 and 3 — exhortations to the seven churches of Asia to
     maintain pure doctrine and practice.
   • Ephesians 3:18 — “strong to apprehend with all saints what is the breadth
     and length and height and depth.”
   1. Note: In all these passages, pastoral charges are given, not by a so called
      bishop to his subordinates, but by an apostle to the whole church [viz
      Congregation] and to all its members.
3. From the committing of the ordinances to the charge of the whole
   church
   • Luke 24:33 — “And they rose up that very hour…found the eleven gathered
     together, and them that were with them”
   • Matthew 28:19, 20 — “Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the
     nations, baptizing them…teaching them”Note: …these passages show that it was not to the eleven apostles alone that Jesus committed the ordinances.
   • 1 Corinthians 11:2 — “Now I praise you that ye remember me in all things, and hold fast the traditions, even as I delivered them to you” (cf. 23, 24)Note: …here Paul commits the Lord’s Supper into the charge, not of the body of officials, but of the whole church. Baptism and the Lord’s Supper, therefore, are not to be administered at the discretion of the individual minister.
4. From the election by the whole church of its own officers and
   delegates. In
   • Acts 6:3, 5 — “Look ye out therefore, brethren, from among you seven men of good report… And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen…and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolaus” [as deacons]
   • Acts 15:24, 22, 30 — “the brethren appointed that Paul and Barnabas and
     certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem…And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church and the apostles and the elders…Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men out of their company, and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas…So they…came down to Antioch; and having gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle”Note: Dr. Strong goes to great length to suggest that the appointment of not only deacons, but elders, was performed by the congregation as a whole, but there is too much information (and overmuch speculation) to reproduce it here.
5. From the power of the whole church to exercise discipline.
   • Matthew 18:17 — “And if he refuse to hear them, tell it unto the church:
     and if he refuse to hear the church also, let him be unto thee as the Gentile and the publican. Verily I say unto you, What things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
   • 1 Corinthians 6:4, 5, 13 — “ye being gathered together…to deliver such a
     one unto Satan…Put away the wicked man from among yourselves”Etc.
     Note: “These words …refer …to the decisions of the whole body of believers guided by the Holy Spirit. If there had been in the mind of our Lord any other than a democratic form of government, he would have referred the aggrieved party to pastor, priest or presbytery.”
   1. Strong - “Passages, which show the right of the whole body to exclude, show also the right of the whole body to admit members.”

 

[twin1954]

Source:

Congregational Polity for Baptists | Abraham's Seed

The following is a summary of AH Strong’s argument for a congregational church polity and it comes from volume 3 of his text of Systematic Theology.


The volume may be downloaded here:
AH Strong, Systematic Theology, Volumes 1,2, and 3


Congregationalism

Cambridge Platform (About), 1648, 10th chapter — “So far as Christ is concerned, church government is a monarchy. So far as the brotherhood of the church is concerned, it resembles a democracy.”
Proof that the government of the church is Congregational.

1. From the duty of the whole church to preserve unity in its action.
   • Romans 12:16 — “Be of the same mind one toward another”
   • 1 Corinthians 1:10 — “Now I beseech you…that ye all speak the same thing,
     and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfected together in
     the same mind and in the same judgment”
   • 2 Corinthians 13:11 — “be of the same mind”
   • Ephesians 4:3 — “giving diligence to keep the unity of the Spirit in the
     bond of peace”
   • Philippians 1:27 — “that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one soul striving
     for the faith of the gospel”
   • 1 Peter 3:8 — “be ye all like minded.”
2. From the responsibility of the whole church for maintaining pure doctrine and practice.
   • 1 Timothy 3:15 — “the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the
     truth”
   • Jude 3 — “exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once
     for all delivered unto the saints”
   • Revelations 2 and 3 — exhortations to the seven churches of Asia to
     maintain pure doctrine and practice.
   • Ephesians 3:18 — “strong to apprehend with all saints what is the breadth
     and length and height and depth.”
   1. Note: In all these passages, pastoral charges are given, not by a so called
      bishop to his subordinates, but by an apostle to the whole church [viz
      Congregation] and to all its members.
3. From the committing of the ordinances to the charge of the whole
   
   church
   • Luke 24:33 — “And they rose up that very hour…found the eleven gathered
     together, and them that were with them”
   • Matthew 28:19, 20 — “Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the
     nations, baptizing them…teaching them”Note: …these passages show that it was not to the eleven apostles alone that Jesus committed the ordinances.
   • 1 Corinthians 11:2 — “Now I praise you that ye remember me in all things, and hold fast the traditions, even as I delivered them to you” (cf. 23, 24)Note: …here Paul commits the Lord’s Supper into the charge, not of the body of officials, but of the whole church. Baptism and the Lord’s Supper, therefore, are not to be administered at the discretion of the individual minister.
4. From the election by the whole church of its own officers and
   
   delegates. In
   • Acts 6:3, 5 — “Look ye out therefore, brethren, from among you seven men of good report… And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen…and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolaus” [as deacons]
   • Acts 15:24, 22, 30 — “the brethren appointed that Paul and Barnabas and
     certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem…And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church and the apostles and the elders…Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men out of their company, and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas…So they…came down to Antioch; and having gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle”Note: Dr. Strong goes to great length to suggest that the appointment of not only deacons, but elders, was performed by the congregation as a whole, but there is too much information (and overmuch speculation) to reproduce it here.
5. From the power of the whole church to exercise discipline.
   • Matthew 18:17 — “And if he refuse to hear them, tell it unto the church:
     and if he refuse to hear the church also, let him be unto thee as the Gentile and the publican. Verily I say unto you, What things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
   • 1 Corinthians 6:4, 5, 13 — “ye being gathered together…to deliver such a
     one unto Satan…Put away the wicked man from among yourselves”Etc.
     Note: “These words …refer …to the decisions of the whole body of believers guided by the Holy Spirit. If there had been in the mind of our Lord any other than a democratic form of government, he would have referred the aggrieved party to pastor, priest or presbytery.”
   1. Strong - “Passages, which show the right of the whole body to exclude, show also the right of the whole body to admit members.”

What part of "obey them that have the rule over you" is congregational? For the local assembly to be ruled by the congregation is to be ruled by unbelievers. Congregations are all made up of sheep and goats, tares and wheat. Moses had a special portion of the Spirit in order to rule the Hebrews but when he listened to his father-in-law, an idoloter, God took of the Spirit He had given Moses and put it upon the other men. Nothing was ever the same for Moses after that. Every time they took a vote in the Scriptures it was wrong.

God calls and ordains faithful pastors to feed, guard and lead His flock. They are one of the assension gifts of Christ to His church. There may be a plurality of elders but only one pastor. Anything that has more than one head is a monster.

 

[JM]

I've seen single Elder/Pastor lead congregations where one man is Pope, Priest and Pastor. Sinners abuse everything they get their hands on. Their is strength in the church. A minister can be a goat as you know.

 

[twin1954]

I've seen single Elder/Pastor lead congregations where one man is Pope, Priest and Pastor. Sinners abuse everything they get their hands on. Their is strength in the church. A minister can be a goat as you know.

If a man is called by God, gifted of God and led by the Spirit he will do what he is called to do, serve Christ and His people. That is why it is so very important to choose a pastor carefully. The fact that sinful men defile what is true does not negate the truth.

 

[twin1954]

Don't you just love church business meetings? Ever been to one that was cordial? Ever belonged to a church that had them that didn't have more problems than people? No thanks. I will follow God's man where he is lead by Christ to go.

 

[Shane R]

Thisplurality of elders is a common teaching of the Restoration Movement churches. The thing that made me re-think was some real history. The letters of the NT are typically written to a place. History tells us that in the early days of the church the most common form of assembly was a house-church; in the great cities many congregations existed each meeting in an affluent member's house. Thus, the plural language of the epistles is explained: the plurality of elders did not necessarily refer to each congregation, but to the city.

 

[JM]

If a man is called by God, gifted of God and led by the Spirit he will do what he is called to do, serve Christ and His people. That is why it is so very important to choose a pastor carefully. The fact that sinful men defile what is true does not negate the truth.

And if men are called by God, gifted of God and led by the Spirit they will do what they are called to do, serve Christ and His people. I don't see how you cannot apply the same logic of faith to plural Elders.

 

[JM]

Don't you just love church business meetings? Ever been to one that was cordial? Ever belonged to a church that had them that didn't have more problems than people? No thanks. I will follow God's man where he is lead by Christ to go.

I have only attended church meetings in a single Elder lead congregation and they went very smoothly. No one argued, few asked questions and votes were almost always unanimous. (I voted against the Arminian Free Willism that were often proposed just me, no one else.) Everyone had issues with the direction of the church but no one (but me) disagreed with the Pastor.

 

[twin1954]

And if men are called by God, gifted of God and led by the Spirit they will do what they are called to do, serve Christ and His people. I don't see how you cannot apply the same logic of faith to plural Elders.

I don't have a problem with a pluraity of elders when the flock is large enough to need them. But there can be only one pastor who is responsible for the flock. A faithful pastor certainly needs the council of faithful men but only one man can lead. I do have a problem with congregational rule. I have a huge problem with the hiring and firing of pastors by the congregation. If a man must be concerned with his job he will not follow Christ but take care that he doesn't offend those who can boot him out. That simply isn't pastoring. That is being a hireling.