PLEASE pray for our reverence.

[Trench777]

I'm a simple Jesus adoring man (I know that is a name you chose not to use, but it is how I know Him). I adore Him because He took me out of the pit of my own filth and cleaned me off, lifted me up, placing me among the princes of His people. When I deserved it least, He loved me. When no one else did, not even myself.

There is a frightening lack of reverence for G-d among the people I have somehow (through ignorance, I suppose) become associated with.

I'm trying to put this as precisely and succinctly as possible (and will probably fail). I'll just be straightforward and not pull any punches. Forgive me if I offend, I pray.

Protestants are bordering on, if not blatantly, disrespectful of G-d. There is little/no reverent attitude, little/no "fear of G-d", little/no concern of what is Holy in the sight of my Holy G-d! At first, I thought perhaps I was just being "over-sensitive" or maybe even fanatical....because that is what I was told and I was young in the L-rd. I am not as young now, but my observations have not changed...there is a lack of respect, a lack of fearful reverence for G-d.

When I have tried to gently correct my brethren, in love, I am told that I am "trying to bind them with Law" or "being a pharisee". I have heard something that has nearly become a mantra..."The Holy Ghost will convict me, if I'm wrong" and/or "If its ok for me, its ok. If its not ok for you, dont do it". VERY obvious (to me at least) blasphamies are being justified in this manner...from listening to blatantly anti-G-d music, anti-G-g TV, wearing vulgar sayings on clothing, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

Please don't mistake my intentions, I pray. I am not here saying "look how much holier I am, than my brethren". I come here because, quite frankly, I am worried for my generation and the one following mine. We are the "wild" grafted into the "natural" and for some reason, we seem to have no respect for the Root! I can not understand this, but I see it daily. I THANK G-D for His mercy towards us!! But I can't help but wonder how long He will suffer this lack of reverence for His Holiness.

I don't even know what I hope this post will change. The thing I know is, I see a reverence and respect for G-d among Messianic Jews that makes the reverence "my" people have look like a speck of dust next to a boulder. I ask that if you read this (and if you did, I commend you for reading it all, heh)...please pray for our eyes to be opened in the area of G-d's Holiness.

I guess that's all I have to say. I thank G-d for you and pray for your safekeeping, Israel. May our eyes be open to the glory your people have beheld and may our hearts be broken to G-d.

T777

 

[Sephania]

We are called to be Holy, because He is Holy, but many don't have an inkling of what that word means. We are not made Holy by Grace as it seems that is the answer for everything in the church that have seen.

 

[debi b]

There is a father every Shabbat he brings his wife a beautiful bouquet of flowers. And she puts them into a beautiful crystal vase. And this happens every Shabbat.

And a little boy 3,4, 5 years old watches his father do this and he notices how happy his mother is and he wants to make his mother happy too. So he goes out to pick flowers every Shabbat. And the kid comes back to the mother with a handful of dandelions and a few weeds. And he says look mom I brought you flowers. And the mother would like to throw them in the garbage, but she understands they are there because the son loves her. So she gets a styrofoam cup, because crystal vases don’t come in that size, and she puts them in the cup and decorates it with some grass and puts it next to the crystal vase. And the child understands - look at that! look what I’ve done, I brought flowers just like daddy. And he is so happy.

And as the years go by, the years go by, suddenly he says while out playing with his friends, UH OH I have to get my mother flowers. My mother needs me to get flowers. So he runs out and grabs a handful of flowers, weeds whatever he can get. And he throws them on the table and says, “here mom you want flowers I got you flowers”. And the mother says, “I don’t need flowers, dad brings me plenty of flowers. I thought you wanted to give them”. And she brushes them into the garbage and crumbles up the little styrofoam cup and throws it away. And if the kid has any brains he looks at the little crumbled up styrofoam cup and says I lost something.

So we want to be close to Adonai and we say “look G-d I brought you -----(you fill in the blank-could be so many things)”. And he says “oh ----- isn’t that nice, just what I needed”. And as time goes on we think, “I have to bring G-d -----, oh boy I haven’t got enough to do, and we say ok G-d you want -----, here is your ----- ”. And G-d says, that’s ok, I can raise up rocks to praise me”.

We need to remember we can easily be like that kid and we can loose something. We need to remember the joy and the love we had at first. If we have forgotten that then we have lost something. Can we become hardened to the point that we can no longer percieve our loss? I think that is sadly so....

 

[visionary]

There is a father every Shabbat he brings his wife a beautiful bouquet of flowers. And she puts them into a beautiful crystal vase. And this happens every Shabbat.

And a little boy 3,4, 5 years old watches his father do this and he notices how happy his mother is and he wants to make his mother happy too. So he goes out to pick flowers every Shabbat. And the kid comes back to the mother with a handful of dandelions and a few weeds. And he says look mom I brought you flowers. And the mother would like to throw them in the garbage, but she understands they are there because the son loves her. So she gets a styrofoam cup, because crystal vases don’t come in that size, and she puts them in the cup and decorates it with some grass and puts it next to the crystal vase. And the child understands - look at that! look what I’ve done, I brought flowers just like daddy. And he is so happy.

And as the years go by, the years go by, suddenly he says while out playing with his friends, UH OH I have to get my mother flowers. My mother needs me to get flowers. So he runs out and grabs a handful of flowers, weeds whatever he can get. And he throws them on the table and says, “here mom you want flowers I got you flowers”. And the mother says, “I don’t need flowers, dad brings me plenty of flowers. I thought you wanted to give them”. And she brushes them into the garbage and crumbles up the little styrofoam cup and throws it away. And if the kid has any brains he looks at the little crumbled up styrofoam cup and says I lost something.

So we want to be close to Adonai and we say “look G-d I brought you -----(you fill in the blank-could be so many things)”. And he says “oh ----- isn’t that nice, just what I needed”. And as time goes on we think, “I have to bring G-d -----, oh boy I haven’t got enough to do, and we say ok G-d you want -----, here is your ----- ”. And G-d says, that’s ok, I can raise up rocks to praise me”.

We need to remember we can easily be like that kid and we can loose something. We need to remember the joy and the love we had at first. If we have forgotten that then we have lost something. Can we become hardened to the point that we can no longer percieve our loss? I think that is sadly so....

You are gifted by the inspiration of the Lord to present the message so wonderfully.

Love hearing from you.
Visionary

 

[Henaynei]

Good posts

I also see that the emphisis has become so heavy on the Daddy, Chum, Buddy approach to G-d that there is a real lose of the Majestic Creator G-d, Master of all the Universe, Righteous Judge of all men. Often we are more into the "pray without ceasing" constant chatter at G-d the we have forgotten the often the most meaningful prayers, to us and to G-d are the silent times we just stop and humbily wait - for Him, on Him.

 

[Trench777]

Good posts

I also see that the emphisis has become so heavy on the Daddy, Chum, Buddy approach to G-d that there is a real lose of the Majestic Creator G-d, Master of all the Universe, Righteous Judge of all men. Often we are more into the "pray without ceasing" constant chatter at G-d the we have forgotten the often the most meaningful prayers, to us and to G-d are the silent times we just stop and humbily wait - for Him, on Him.

Yes, I agree. "Humbly" you mention...thats what I'm talking about. Humility, being abased (yet abounding), being humble.

It is something I see in "your" ranks, that is lacking in "mine". We are of One Body, yet the members I'm connected to are lacking reverence for the Head. It saddens and worries me, so I pray that the spirit of reverence you have for G-d be manifested upon we engrafted gentiles, that we might see G-d as the majestic, Holy, fearful, terrible G-d that He is.

I even SAY the word "terrible" in reference to G-d and my brethren look at me like I just sprouted another head. Until I point out in the O.T. where He is called that...then they just look at me like I'm a poor lost soul who doesn't know that "He's changed" (???).

I love my brethren. Please don't think of me as the pharisee pointing at the tax collecter, praying "Thanks G-d for not making me like him"...its not that way at all. I just desperately desire for my brothers and sisters to REVERE G-d and His Holiness. To understand that it is a HUGE honor to be cleansed of our sins that we might enter into His presence.

PLEASE pray for us.

Respectfully,

T777

 

[Henaynei]

Omeyn

 

[rooster]

We are not made Holy by Grace as it seems that is the answer for everything in the church that have seen.

Indeed, indeed.
With that one sentence you have cast a reflection on the "wayward" paradigm that some churches have.
Thank you Zayit, from one sentence i have learned.

 

[Plan 9]

I'm not sure I understand.

 

[Henaynei]

We are saved by Grace, not made Holy by grace - THAT is the portion of "our salvation worked out with fear and trembling." WE commit to Holiness by living according to G-d's instructions which are designed BY G-d to make His people Holy.

 

[Sephania]

Isn't it wonderful that he left us an instruction book so we know how to do this and gave us a teacher to show us the way? Praise HIm!

 

[Henaynei]

Omeyn

 

[Plan 9]

If I had what it takes to achieve holiness through works, a teacher, and an instruction book, then I would be an astoundingly better person today than I am.
I've needed G-d's help to make every millimeter of progress I've gained. The Master of the Universe has been my companion; my buddy; my pal, because I'm not like the rest of you.

Not so long after I became a Christian (I was eighteen), I inhaled a wisdom tooth during the oral surgery being done to extract them.
After the surgery to remove it from my lung, I quit breathing and my heart stopped in the recovery room. This is a long story, and perhaps better told at length somewhere else, but to say that I was extremely crabby when I awakened in a tunnel-like place to be informed by G-d that I wasn't breathing is an understatement. I didn't even believe him. I felt I needed to check for myself.
When I finally concluded He was correct, although I was intensely irritated by a faraway knocking sounds and the voice of someone calling my name every few minutes, and I thought, (adult language omitted thoughout to avoid breaking CF rules and offending the reader)
"SHUT UP! I'm trying to have a conversation with G-D HERE."
I later discovered that this extremely rude man who was distracting me was the doctor frantically performing CPR and shouting my name in an attempt to save my life.
Had G-d be anyone else than who he is, he undoubtedly would have inquired a number of times throughout what seemed to me to be perhaps a half-hour long conversation if I wanted some cheese with my whine, but instead he was gentle, loving and patient with me.
When he explained that one end of the 'tunnel' led to earth, and the other to Heaven, and that it was my decision whether I returned to earth or went home with him, I thought of my parents and how terribly they would grieve, and I felt strongly that the right thing to do would be to go back, but I was too cowardly to say so.
After inhaling the cap of the wisdom tooth, I had been sent one place for x-rays, then taken to the hospital to find that they didn't accept other clinic's x-rays. Then they did them over, but forgot the important one, and then I had to be x-rayed a third time, and the pain medication I had been given had worn long before.
So, in spite of the fact that I had eighteen years of life to evaluate, in my mind my entire life encompassed that one day, so panicked, replying,
"I don't want to go back to earth; it hurts there and they make you take your clothes on and off all the time!"
G-d then told me gently, and lovingly,
"Then you can come with me."
But I knew that would be wrong, but I still couldn't say to him that I had to go back because I didn't want to do that at all. Not at all! I also knew he make happen whatever I said; because he had told me so...so finally I burst out in an agony of indecision (don't wanna, oughtta, don't wanna, oughtta, scared, scared, scared!)
"I can't make this decision, G-d! You have to do it for me!"

...and then I was shocked, because he was pleased with me! He was radiating pleasure everywhere! Here I was being the ultimate slacker, unable to do the right thing or the wrong thing, pushing it all off on him, proving everyone who had told me this about myself in my whole life absolutely right about me, yet he approved! He was happy with me! He said to me in a way that made it clear that this was a very important truth that I should remember,

"Because you allowed me to make this decision for you, it will count as though you made it for yourself."

Then that part of him which was inside me (it was as though he was both inside me and all around me) gave an abrupt jerk and I was suddenly back in the recovery room with the doctor practically on top of me, pounding on my chest and shouting,
"Jennifer, BREATHE! Jennifer, BREATHE! Jennifer, BREATHE!",
and I began to sob uncontrollably.
He smiled at me, in obvious relief, and said reassuringly,
"It's all right, Jennifer; you're breathing now."
and I wailed,
"I know!", and kept on sobbing for several minutes because I wasn't as happy to be back as he was to have me back.

As it turned out, my heart had stopped for approximately five minutes.

Most Christian people don't care for this story much at all; they love the usual NDE narratives, in which people see a wonderful, bright light and are transformed with a holy joy to be in the presence of G-d, or to met by angels, or whatever; not NDE's in which the person is intensely cranky, irritable, shortsighted, contradicts G-d when he tells her something, uses vulgar language when speaking to him, and displays real cowardice when making a simple choice.

In my own way, I was transformed though; I knew that G-d loved his backward, unseemly, slacking, irreverent, loser children no less his others, that he had provided for us, too, and that he would continue to love me and provide for me, even going so far as to give me credit for my most pathetic and negative attempts to love and obey him in return, when no one else (especially not me) can even perceive that any credit is due.
This is not to say that I don't want to to pray for me, or others like me, but don't take on such a task lightly because you'll wait a long time to perceive any change in us as a result, suppposing you ever do.
Some of us are more reverent than we appear, we inwardly revere HaShem for his holiness as much as any believer does, precisely because we fall so short and he is so merciful, and we even change for the better, but he may be the only one to notice, because other believers rarely look past the fact that we smoke and swear and listen to the Beatles and rent R rated movies and read Stephen King, and even learn important moral and ethical lessons about ourselves and the nature of G-d from Mr. King.
It's not my intention to be critical of the OP or any of the posts on this thread; I'm only saying that HaShem is looking after many of us believers who appear irreverent or spiritually backward or slow, that our eyes may be as wide open to him as anyone's, that we love him, and that if HaShem is our 'buddy', that may be because he knows we desperately need the buddy system; not because we're demeaning him in any way. If anything, the reverse may be true: it may a great and awesome miracle that the Master of the Universe would even consider filling such a need in our lives.

 

[visionary]

In to the highways and byways, and invite them in, for they shall fill my house and come to the wedding supper....He is real..and perfect for our perfection

I know that which you speak of...He gives you the concept..and He watches His seed sprout in our mind and grow, He waters it, and see it take root, that we may grow into the fruit of His harvest. You have been blessed, you have an experience that theology can only theorize and never understand. They may even cannonize it. but it is alive and in you. This light, truth and experience will be the source of your hope of salvation, and He who has started a good work will finish it.

Visionary

 

[Plan 9]

In to the highways and byways, and invite them in, for they shall fill my house and come to the wedding supper....He is real..and perfect for our perfection

I know that which you speak of...He gives you the concept..and He watches His seed sprout in our mind and grow, He waters it, and see it take root, that we may grow into the fruit of His harvest. You have been blessed, you have an experience that theology can only theorize and never understand. They may even cannonize it. but it is alive and in you. This light, truth and experience will be the source of your hope of salvation, and He who has started a good work will finish it.

Visionary

I love the way you always think so charitably of other believers, and always have an encouraging word at hand.

I had that experience at just the right time: as a new believer who was afraid she couldn't run the race. After that happened, I knew I was safe in HaShem's arms; that he would not come to reject me or despise me, as the world had; that his standards of what makes a person valuable to him are very different, and fully inclusive of me, even if I never grasped the ins and outs of this.

I believe what you say is true, Visionary, but the Good L-rd must work with what he's got, so perhaps his good work is completed in some of us more slowly than others? If so, I'm not complaining; I'm grateful to be in the race at all. When I see you, and my brothers and sisters like you, breaking the distant finish line tape ahead of me, as I stagger along far behind you, your victory will encourage me to stagger a bit faster, just as all of you do now when I see you running along ahead of me.