Please justify Sunday worship

[ps139]

Hello folks

I'm currently in a conversation with a 7th Day Adventist who is telling me that it is basically a sin (violation of 4th commandment) that communal worship is held on Sunday instead of Saturday.

Now, I am trying to reach him as effectively as possible and I know that saying "Pope Gonzo XVII changed it at the Council of Youngstown, Ohio in 1245" will not hold much weight with him....nor with you....which is why I am coming here for help

Basically, the NT makes frequent references that the in the early Church, believers came together to worship on "The Lord's Day." But it does not specifically say "This was what you now call Sunday." I think I can prove this from the Church Fathers, but again, he probably will not care.

So how is Sunday worship justified from a Sola Scriptura point of view?

Thanks in advance

 

[frumanchu]

Hello folks

I'm currently in a conversation with a 7th Day Adventist who is telling me that it is basically a sin (violation of 4th commandment) that communal worship is held on Sunday instead of Saturday.

Now, I am trying to reach him as effectively as possible and I know that saying "Pope Gonzo XVII changed it at the Council of Youngstown, Ohio in 1245" will not hold much weight with him....nor with you....which is why I am coming here for help

Basically, the NT makes frequent references that the in the early Church, believers came together to worship on "The Lord's Day." But it does not specifically say "This was what you now call Sunday." I think I can prove this from the Church Fathers, but again, he probably will not care.

So how is Sunday worship justified from a Sola Scriptura point of view?

Thanks in advance

VII. As it is of the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in his Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men in all ages, he hath particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him: which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week; and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week, which in Scripture is called the Lord's Day, and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath. - Westminster Confession, XXI, vii
​

I don't have time to go into in depth, but the central idea is that the Law finds its fulfillment in Christ (Matt 5:17), and that it is in Christ we find our rest (Heb 4). Man was not made for the Sabbath but the Sabbath for man (Mark 2:27). The principle of one day's rest in seven still holds. If you hold Scripture as authoritative, you must recognize the clear instruction in Scripture regarding the Sabbath in the New Testament church:

"Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." - 1 Cor 16:1-2

"And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight." - Acts 20:7

Hope that helps!

 

[heymikey80]

Classic Reformed theology points out that the church everywhere worshipped Sunday (ala the passage in 1 Corinthians and Acts 20, along with the Epistle of Barnabas ). When every other Apostolic church performs something a certain way, it becomes normative for any other church (1 Cor 14:33,36-37).

Historically the practice clearly carries from Apostolic practice. For instance, taking Barnabas historically shows the practice to be very early, as well as how early Christians understood the practice:

Lastly, he saith unto them; Your new moons and your sabbaths I cannot bear them. Consider what he means by it; the sabbaths, says he, which ye now keep are not acceptable unto me, but those which I have made; when resting from all things I shall begin the eighth day, that is, the beginning of the other world. For which cause we observe the eighth day with gladness, in which Jesus rose from the dead; and having manifested himself to his disciples, ascended into heaven.​

While I'm a Presbyterian I hold to a particular distinction on the Sabbath, represented by the Geneva Catechism (from Calvin).

The Law has changed (Heb 7:12); the basis for worship has changed. The particular day of worship has been unseated as ceremonial. But there's still moral force to "gathering ourselves together " (cf Heb 10:25), and "encouraging one another ... so that none will be hardened" (cf. Heb 3:13). The Seventh Day Sabbath worship is the sole Law not reiterated from the Ten Commandments in the New Testament.

There's a reason. The Sabbath Day has been redesignated (Heb 4:7) to the "Today" worship of Jesus Christ, from the Seventh Day (Heb 4:4). That's what that word "fixes" or "sets" means in Heb 4:7.

I wouldn't try to prove it to them, they're starting from the Ten Commandments as an assumption. Just set it before them and counter their arguments against it, as Scripture counters the argument. "If they disbelieve the Scriptures, they wouldn't believe if someone rises from the dead."

 

[rmwilliamsll]

I'm interested in looking at just a small part of this endless argument.

Sabbath as the last day of the week meant that people worked first then rested. The trust was placed after the effort.

Now the Christian Sabbath is the first day, we effectively rest in Messiah Jesus before any effort on our part, then go to work as a response to the worship service.

it seems to be related to the looking forwards to Christ in the OT and the looking backwards towards the cross in the New.

i'm interested in the symbolism of the day change.

has anyone pursued these ideas before, who can point to more reading on it? thanks

 

[Imblessed]

mwilliamsll,

that's an interesting point, and one i've never thought of before. I'd be interested in seeing if anyone has read anything else about that.

as for the OP, I'm not sure you can "prove" anything to a 7th day as far as that goes, but the others in here have made some great points as to why we worship on the Lord's Day. The distinction must be made that we did not 'change' the sabbath.....Sabbath day no longer applies to us. I would just put forth the view as to why we do not need to hold to the sabbath day any longer.

 

[ps139]

I appreciate your help, friends

 

[edie19]

. . . Now the Christian Sabbath is the first day, we effectively rest in Messiah Jesus before any effort on our part, then go to work as a response to the worship service. . . . thanks

My pastor says essentially the same thing about resting in our Lord and Savior.

edie

 

[rmwilliamsll]

What is interesting is that there appears to be two very different ways of looking at the issue:

the first is that the 4 commandment is binding on all people as a creation mandate, made more specific under the Moses covenant and had a change of day under the New Covenant.

the second is that the Sabbath is given just to the Hebrews, is abrogated at the Resurrection and that a new holy Day, Easter Sunday is given to Christians and is remembered every Sunday in a matter like the Lord's Supper is a memorial to the Last Passover. Making an analogy of:
Communion is to the Passover as
Sunday is to the Sabbath....

nice thinking. thanks everyone.

 

[rnmomof7]

Hello folks

I'm currently in a conversation with a 7th Day Adventist who is telling me that it is basically a sin (violation of 4th commandment) that communal worship is held on Sunday instead of Saturday.

Now, I am trying to reach him as effectively as possible and I know that saying "Pope Gonzo XVII changed it at the Council of Youngstown, Ohio in 1245" will not hold much weight with him....nor with you....which is why I am coming here for help

Basically, the NT makes frequent references that the in the early Church, believers came together to worship on "The Lord's Day." But it does not specifically say "This was what you now call Sunday." I think I can prove this from the Church Fathers, but again, he probably will not care.

So how is Sunday worship justified from a Sola Scriptura point of view?

Thanks in advance

Interesting that you would come to Calvinists for the answers Bill.

There is no evidence that the 1st commandment has to do with worship at all, but as scripture says the following Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:" (kinda kills the idea of a mortal sin if you miss mass huh?)


The sabbath was a time of physical rest from labor that is why it is said that it was made for man


The Puritans always taught that Jesus is our Sabbath rest .

Here is a link on that .

http://www.letusreason.org/7thAd25.htm

We have worshiped in Sundays because we celebrate the resurrection but this is not a commanded worship it is one that comes from the heart of the redeemed

 

[heymikey80]

What is interesting is that there appears to be two very different ways of looking at the issue:

the first is that the 4 commandment is binding on all people as a creation mandate, made more specific under the Moses covenant and had a change of day under the New Covenant.

the second is that the Sabbath is given just to the Hebrews, is abrogated at the Resurrection and that a new holy Day, Easter Sunday is given to Christians and is remembered every Sunday in a matter like the Lord's Supper is a memorial to the Last Passover. Making an analogy of:
Communion is to the Passover as
Sunday is to the Sabbath....

nice thinking. thanks everyone.

Yes, in fact there's a mix of both from early on in Reformed thought:

M.Does he order us to labor on six days, that we may rest on the seventh?
S. Not absolutely; but allowing man six days for labor, he excepts the seventh, that it may be devoted to rest.
M. Does he interdict us from all kind of labor?
S. This commandment has a separate and peculiar reason. As the observance of rest is part of the old ceremonies, it was abolished by the advent of Christ.
M. Do you mean that this commandment properly refers to the Jews, and was therefore merely temporary
S. I do, in as far as it is ceremonial.
M. What then? Is there any thing under it beyond ceremony?
S. It was given for three reasons.
M. State them to me.
S. To figure spiritual rest; for the preservation of ecclesiastical polity; and for the relief of slaves.

 

[JimfromOhio]

This is my thoughts on the topic and studied the "Shorter Catechism" of the Sabbath Day and Worship.

I understand that God rested on the seventh day as a pattern of work six days and rest one day which is binding for everyone since God did not rest for Himself, but for us. Jesus Christ taught the fullness of the spirit of the Law compared to the letter of Law. The rest which the old Sabbath promised has come in Christ: “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest” (Matt. 11:28). The shift from the Jewish Saturday Sabbath to the Resurrection Sabbath of Jesus Christ is evident through various New Testament texts. It is my belief that sabbath (a day of rest) to the pattern of work six days and rest one day. There are people who work Saturdays and Sundays. And rest one day during the week. They even worship on a different day. Those who restricts God's Grace for christians observe the Sabbath with rules and regulations. The definition of legalism is a strict, literal or excessive conformity to the law or to a religious or moral code. In Hebrews 4 simply means that a believer can have a Sabbath rest at any day of the week.

Hebrews 4:11 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

The Sabbath observance was a part of the ceremonial law of the Old Testament, along with such things as circumcision and eating restrictions. These ceremonial laws showed that the Israelites were set apart (sanctified) from all other nations (Exodus 31:12, 13).

The New Testament shows that all ceremonial law (restrictive eating - Timothy 4:4, 5), circumcision - I Corinthians 7:18, and Sabbath-keeping - Colossians 2:16, 17) was fulfilled in Christ, and our need to observe it for justification and sanctification abolished. We are even warned against Sabbath-keepers who want to judge others for not keeping it: "Let no man judge you...regarding...sabbaths" (Colossians 2:16).

Keeping the Sabbath day holy is a commandment that requires a lot of heart searching. Jesus condemned the Pharisees saying "The Sabbath is made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27). Sunday is the Christian Sabbath because it is the day Christ arose. The Sabbath also was a day for God's people to gather together and Sunday is the day we gather as witnesses to the resurrection. Sabbath is a heart searching situation. I labor 6 days and take a day to celebrate God. Jesus is our Sabbath rest.

After studying the Word... I am comfortable worshipping on Sunday. Simply because on the first day of the week that Christ arose and so the first day, Sunday, came to be designated as the Lord's Day. On that day the early Christians gathered to worship (Acts 20:7; Revelation 1:10) as do we, and in doing so we celebrate Christ's resurrection. Christ's sacrifice for sin--Himself--was a "once for all" sacrifice. It needs never to be repeated. It is eternally effective. There is nothing wrong worshipping on Saturdays. I worship Sunday because Christ rose on the first day of the week. If anyone wants to attend Church on Saturday, it is God's grace and blessings. If anyone wants to attend Church on Sunday, it is God's grace and blessings.

 

[rnmomof7]

This is my thoughts on the topic and studied the "Shorter Catechism" of the Sabbath Day and Worship.

I understand that God rested on the seventh day as a pattern of work six days and rest one day which is binding for everyone since God did not rest for Himself, but for us. Jesus Christ taught the fullness of the spirit of the Law compared to the letter of Law. The rest which the old Sabbath promised has come in Christ: “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest” (Matt. 11:28). The shift from the Jewish Saturday Sabbath to the Resurrection Sabbath of Jesus Christ is evident through various New Testament texts. It is my belief that sabbath (a day of rest) to the pattern of work six days and rest one day. There are people who work Saturdays and Sundays. And rest one day during the week. They even worship on a different day. Those who restricts God's Grace for christians observe the Sabbath with rules and regulations. The definition of legalism is a strict, literal or excessive conformity to the law or to a religious or moral code. In Hebrews 4 simply means that a believer can have a Sabbath rest at any day of the week.

Hebrews 4:11 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

The Sabbath observance was a part of the ceremonial law of the Old Testament, along with such things as circumcision and eating restrictions. These ceremonial laws showed that the Israelites were set apart (sanctified) from all other nations (Exodus 31:12, 13).

The New Testament shows that all ceremonial law (restrictive eating - Timothy 4:4, 5), circumcision - I Corinthians 7:18, and Sabbath-keeping - Colossians 2:16, 17) was fulfilled in Christ, and our need to observe it for justification and sanctification abolished. We are even warned against Sabbath-keepers who want to judge others for not keeping it: "Let no man judge you...regarding...sabbaths" (Colossians 2:16).

Keeping the Sabbath day holy is a commandment that requires a lot of heart searching. Jesus condemned the Pharisees saying "The Sabbath is made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27). Sunday is the Christian Sabbath because it is the day Christ arose. The Sabbath also was a day for God's people to gather together and Sunday is the day we gather as witnesses to the resurrection. Sabbath is a heart searching situation. I labor 6 days and take a day to celebrate God. Jesus is our Sabbath rest.

After studying the Word... I am comfortable worshipping on Sunday. Simply because on the first day of the week that Christ arose and so the first day, Sunday, came to be designated as the Lord's Day. On that day the early Christians gathered to worship (Acts 20:7; Revelation 1:10) as do we, and in doing so we celebrate Christ's resurrection. Christ's sacrifice for sin--Himself--was a "once for all" sacrifice. It needs never to be repeated. It is eternally effective. There is nothing wrong worshipping on Saturdays. I worship Sunday because Christ rose on the first day of the week. If anyone wants to attend Church on Saturday, it is God's grace and blessings. If anyone wants to attend Church on Sunday, it is God's grace and blessings.

Amen