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And without the Church, which gathered up the Scriptures, and which preserved the teachings of the Apostles, how is God supposed to pass that information about faith and doctrine on to us? By osmosis?I've always been taught that God is the bottom line for rules pertaining to faith and doctrine, and not the church.
The Church, through the Magesterium, is the interpreter of the Scriptures as well as Tradition. There are levels of teaching in the Church, from dogmas down to minor devotions. Not all of them carry the same weight.That is, in part, why he inspired members of his church to write the Scriptures, to teach the disciples God's commandments and not those of men.
Which is undoubtably why there are 20,000 Protestant denominations, and only one Catholic Church. They all interpret truth for themselves.....and splinter, and splinter, and splinter, and splinter.........I've also been taught by those same Scriptures that the church (or Christian assembly) is the pillar and the ground of truth, and not any magisterium.
And I've been taught by the same Apostle Paul that a man who is unmarried can attend to the Lord's business exclusively---see 1 Cor 7:32-35. Besides, Paul was talking about the Gnostics, who forbade marriage for a totally different reason. They saw the body as "evil"; we do not.And finally, I've been taught by the apostle Paul's writings that forbidding marriage is one of the doctrines of devils, as well as one of the marks of departing from that faith which was handed down by the apostles to the saints.
Anytime, anywhere. And as I have said before: there is no discrepancy between the Catholic Faith and the Scriptures. There is a discrepancy between the Catholic Faith and the Protestant interpretation of the Scriptures.Care to comment on what appears to be a discrepancy between the Catholic faith and the faith found in the Scriptures?
First of all, you repeatedly refer to clergy being allowed the option to marry as "the law of God", and you haven't yet proven to me, by means of Scripture or otherwise, that this is a "law". Scripture indicates that is allowed, certainly, but the particular preference of the individual is a long ways from being a "law".Of course not. But we are not talking a commandment that was passed on in the Scriptures. We are talking about the Catholic church forbidding priests to marry when neither God nor his apostles ever demanded such thing from ministers. So, in your opinion, who has the last word? God, who permits ministers to marry, or your magisterium, who forbade them to marry?
But the problem that we are discussing here is the fact that the law of God, which permits ministers to marry, does not carry the same weight as the ecclesiastical law of the Catholic church. Since when do the laws of men take precedence over the law of God?
Here is the issue of authority. You are taking this verse to mean "the assembly"----the whole Christian body of believers, who should come together and make decisions about issues in the Church. But it should be borne in mind that the Christian Church is not, and never was, a democracy. Take a look at the Book of Acts. Who has the authority when issues came up? Hint: it wasn't the whole assembly of believers.Your avoiding answering to the truth of what Paul wrote. He said the church, the Christian assembly, is the pillar and ground of truth, not any magisterium.
Dismissing the idea above of the assembly having the authority, which we have already disposed of, the Church has the right as the final arbiter of faith and doctrine, to impose disciplines on the Church or segments of it, and to lift them as well. Celibacy is a discipline, which means the Church imposed it, and the Church can lift it, if she so desires. You might be interested to know that Catholic priests in most, if not all, of the Eastern rites, can indeed marry. This is a reflection of the absence of primogeniture in the ancient East, while in the West, it was prevalent. Ergo, celibacy is more common to the Roman, or Western, rite of the Catholic Church than it is to the various Eastern rites of the Catholic Church. Roman Catholic deacons are also allowed to take orders while married, and ordained ministers who are converts to Catholicism can also become Catholic priests while married. So, married clergy does exist, it is simply not the norm.Therefore, being the pillar and ground of the truth empowers the assembly to follow God's laws in permitting marriage to its ministers, and not imposing upon them celibacy as a requirement to enter the ministry.
The Church hasn't laid down a law in imposing celibacy, either. Celibacy is a discipline, not a doctrine; it is forced on no one. Men who decide to become priests freely choose to embrace celibacy; nobody holds a gun to their head. If they don't want to be celibate, they don't have to become priests. Any male Catholic is free to marry, to embrace Holy Orders, or to remain single. The choice is entirely up to him. But someone who freely chooses to pledge his life to Christ alone, and then changes his mind, saying, "No, I've decided I want to marry that woman over there", we equate with someone who freely chooses to pledge his life to a woman in marriage, and then changes his mind, saying, "No, I've decided I don't love this woman any more---I want to marry that woman over there".The difference is, Paul was not laying down a law in 1 Corinthians. He was not requiring ministers to be celibate in order to enter the ministry. In fact, he wasn't even addressing ministers at all but rather the congregation at large. And the reason for his advice was because of the "present distress" in verse 26. It was a temporary suggestion, based on the choice of the individual, and not a perpetual church mandate to be imposed upon ministers or ministers-to-be.
Marriage is not dishonorable for anyone----it was the Catholic Church, after all, who, on the injunction of Jesus, elevated marriage to the level of a sacrament. The examples you have quoted are all originally from the Middle Ages, and are all those of men who have already made their pledge to the Church alone, and then have gotten involved in a romantic situation. Which, as I pointed out, is seen pretty much like being unfaithful to your wife in favor of another woman.please explain to me, then, why when God says marriage is "honorable in all," the Catholic church has made it dishonorable for priests?
Not exactly. A Catholic believes that the Church has its authority from Christ Himself, and that while individual members of the Church or even the Magesterium are capable of error, the Magesterium itself, in a body, is infallible. Ergo, if the Church issues a ruling imposing clerical celibacy in a legitimate ecumenical council, presided over by the Supreme Pontiff, then that decision is not in error, and is the way God wants it to be.So basically I gather from all your response that you, as a Catholic, wholly believe your church has the authority to deny ministers that which God permits them, for reasons given above? Does that about sum it up?
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