Please help. I keep getting asked this question and it's making be wonder

lostintranslation · Nov 18, 2008

That's very helpful. Thanks everyone. I sincerely doubt I can use it in an argument though as these people rely on logic and reason over faith so the discussion with them is futile when we look at texts so differently to the way they do.

I think when we have some Christians still trying to insist that Noah's story is literal, we are setting ourselves up to be a laughing stock. Historically speaking it has been proven to never have happened and when that was proven, we should all have switched to saying it was metaphorical.

revanneosl · Nov 18, 2008

lostintranslation said:
I think when we have some Christians still trying to insist that Noah's story is literal, we are setting ourselves up to be a laughing stock. Historically speaking it has been proven to never have happened and when that was proven, we should all have switched to saying it was metaphorical.

Well, Christianity is a big, big bunch of people and I don't think that it's ever going to happen that "all" of us switch our thinking on any issue. However, take heart. The vast majority of Christians view the Noah story, and the rest of the book of Genesis for that matter, as metaphorical.

Chaplain David · Nov 18, 2008

lostintranslation said:
That's very helpful. Thanks everyone. I sincerely doubt I can use it in an argument though as these people rely on logic and reason over faith so the discussion with them is futile when we look at texts so differently to the way they do.

I think when we have some Christians still trying to insist that Noah's story is literal, we are setting ourselves up to be a laughing stock. Historically speaking it has been proven to never have happened and when that was proven, we should all have switched to saying it was metaphorical.

Noah's story is literal and true. What makes you think otherwise?

Chaplain David · Nov 18, 2008

revanneosl said:
Well, Christianity is a big, big bunch of people and I don't think that it's ever going to happen that "all" of us switch our thinking on any issue. However, take heart. The vast majority of Christians view the Noah story, and the rest of the book of Genesis for that matter, as metaphorical.

Reference please?

Chaplain David · Nov 18, 2008

lostintranslation said:
i know that, Yardstick.

However, it doesn't answer the very valid question. The more I think about this, the more I think we're deluding ourselves and missing the point of the Bible if we don't allow ourselves to seriously consider this question.

On another thread on here, there are people trying to argue that the Ark existed but I have long since thought that history and archaeology prove that to not be the case and only a few literalists remain who are trying to prove it.

I think these people make a mockery of our faith, in a way. It's so easy to disprove large parts of the bible, unless we accept them as metaphor. I just want an answer to this question I keep getting asked...

How do we know which bits are metaphorical and which bits are literal?

I honestly think that if we cannot answer this question well, that it really brings into question the whole book and this is not something I want to do.

Please help.

Are you saying that people who accept scripture as the inspired Word of God are making a mockery of our faith?

brinny · Nov 18, 2008

lostintranslation....

so.....God was joking about the ark, about the flood? What else was He joking about in the Bible?

...or are you speaking of the same God i am?

i was in the midst of looking for Ravi Zacharias and found this, which i found interesting and thought provoking..thought you might be interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGrFE8bX_YE

Chaplain David · Nov 18, 2008

Yardstick said:
It's history in as much as it's telling a story. The gospels for instance, where not interested in writing a biography of Jesus, they wanted to share with people why Jesus was so important.

Except many of us believe that it is history if it is presented as such. Yet there are many who have many different beliefs about this.

brinny · Nov 18, 2008

lostintranslation said:
Hello everyone,

First post and all that.

I love to discuss faith and Jesus with people but I keep falling down on the same point.

I look at the Bible and there's so much in it which cannot be taken literally and is clearly metaphorical. When atheists laugh at the Bible, I always say, "it's not all supposed to be literal" and most back off at this point.

However, some ask me the following question and the more I question it, the more I wonder

"So, how do we know which bits are meant to be taken literally and which bits are meant to be seen as metaphorical?"

Can anyone help? Thanks.

why are you discussing the Bible or a God you are confused about to anyone?

Chaplain David · Nov 18, 2008

lostintranslation said:
Thanks brinny. I'm kind of looking for something more definite. That kind of answer isn't going to wash with those who don't have the faith.

The trouble is when I look at it, it does start to look like we're told to see the things that have been disproven by science as "metaphorical" and everything else as literal.

For example, historically speaking, the people on the earth at the time of writing the scripture would have believed the genesis story as a literal explanation of how things worked but now we know that to be a metaphor...Do you see my problem?

That is correct. A Christian answer might not wash with those who do not have faith. But it washes with those who do and those who are trying to have it.

Regarding earth creation, many Christians believe in what God has written in Genesis. But there are other theories some Christians choose to accept rather than what is stated in scripture.

Just because our finite minds cannot understand scripture or we find things that do not make sense to us does not mean that scripture is not true. I find the written Word of God to be more literal than not and so do many Christians I know.

razzelflabben · Nov 18, 2008

lostintranslation said:
Hello everyone,

First post and all that.

I love to discuss faith and Jesus with people but I keep falling down on the same point.

I look at the Bible and there's so much in it which cannot be taken literally and is clearly metaphorical. When atheists laugh at the Bible, I always say, "it's not all supposed to be literal" and most back off at this point.

However, some ask me the following question and the more I question it, the more I wonder

"So, how do we know which bits are meant to be taken literally and which bits are meant to be seen as metaphorical?"

Can anyone help? Thanks.

We need to read the bible the way we would any other literary work. When you pick up a book and read it, what clues tell you whether it is an allegory, fiction, non fiction, lesson, study book, etc. the point is, the bible is a literary work, if we read it, looking for the same clues, we can know right off the bat which are allegories, parables, history, etc. It's all about basic literary clues.

visionary · Nov 18, 2008

lostintranslation said:
Thanks Brinny. There's not really anything else I struggle with but I just cannot find a proper straight answer to the question,

"How do we know which bits of the Bible are metaphorical and which bits are meant to be taken literally?"

The Bible explains itself.

Metaphorical is a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them.

Biblical writers dont use metaphors to decorate plain ideas. They use them intentionally to pack profound meaning into just a few words.

You cant get far in Bible study without meeting metaphors, for powerful word pictures are used frequently in both the Old and New Testaments. For example, take these lines addressed to God in Psalm 63:

Because you are my help,
I sing in the shadow of your wings.
My soul clings to you;
your right hand upholds me (Psalm 63:7-8).

The visual aid of the metaphor helps us visualize more than what we comonly see day to day. It takes us out of the material plane and places us in the spiritual plane in which God operates.

razzelflabben · Nov 18, 2008

lostintranslation said:
That's very helpful. Thanks everyone. I sincerely doubt I can use it in an argument though as these people rely on logic and reason over faith so the discussion with them is futile when we look at texts so differently to the way they do.

I think when we have some Christians still trying to insist that Noah's story is literal, we are setting ourselves up to be a laughing stock. Historically speaking it has been proven to never have happened and when that was proven, we should all have switched to saying it was metaphorical.

something to keep in mind, the bible is a collection of books, all with a common theme. Therefore writing style, literary rules all apply.

Chaplain David · Nov 18, 2008

lostintranslation said:
Thanks Brinny. There's not really anything else I struggle with but I just cannot find a proper straight answer to the question,

"How do we know which bits of the Bible are metaphorical and which bits are meant to be taken literally?"

One way is to study the bible. Most often it is helpful to have some references handy to assist with that study including a bible dictionary, a good commentary, even an online bible program for searching and cross referencing. It is very important to become educated in the bible and in addition to the above, attending a regular bible study will help. We can get lost in our own minds, and finite human logic. What I found I needed to do was open my mind, try to keep it open, learn as much as I can, and as Billy Graham stated, "I don't understand everything about the Bible so what I don't understand I accept by faith." I can tell you from personal experience that many things including revelations from scripture will be revealed to you if you are vigilent in your pusuit of a relationship with Jesus Christ, listen for and act on inspiration from the Holy Spirit, pray to God regularly and frequently, and are active in Church. God bless you.

brinny · Nov 18, 2008

some feedback from Ravi Zacharias:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkFFgdJeZFM&feature=related

Chaplain David · Nov 18, 2008

brinny said:
The Bible is merely a beckoning to look to the One Who wrote it. As far as convincing someone that is truly the Word of God, that is the job of the Holy Spirit, not ours. God, moving in a heart, is what softens it and opens spiritual eyes...i once was blind but now i see. God will do this. We cannot.

Amen but we can stand in testimony of our Lord and His written Word by our living example and through talking about them when asked or if we feel the time is right to bring the Lord up to a preChristian.

brinny · Nov 18, 2008

Originally Posted by brinny
The Bible is merely a beckoning to look to the One Who wrote it. As far as convincing someone that is truly the Word of God, that is the job of the Holy Spirit, not ours. God, moving in a heart, is what softens it and opens spiritual eyes...i once was blind but now i see. God will do this. We cannot.

sacerdote said:
Amen but we can stand in testimony of our Lord and His written Word by our living example and through talking about them when asked or if we feel the time is right to bring the Lord up to a preChristian.

Amen. However, it's not recommended if you are shaky about your beliefs from the gitgo or if you're confused about the God you say you believe in. My question then becomes, what is the motivation for sharing at that point...seems like the witnessing is more successful coming from those posing questions to the 'witness-er' since said person is starting to say...well yeah, they did raise a good point, maybe it's not really true, but just a myth or a story, or maybe God was just joking......

The Holy Spirit needs to speak through us. We cannot do this in our own strength.

This might help clarify:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwbps9k5Dj0

&Abel · Nov 18, 2008

concerning Noah from the book of enoch:

LIV.7.-LV.2. Noachic Fragment on the first World Judgement.

7
And in those days shall punishment come from the Lord of Spirits, and he will open all the chambers of waters which are above the heavens, and of the fountains which are beneath the earth. 8
And all the waters shall be joined with the waters: that which is above the heavens is the masculine, 9
and the water which is beneath the earth is the feminine. And they shall destroy all who dwell 10
on the earth and those who dwell under the ends of the heaven. And when they have recognized their unrighteousness which they have wrought on the earth, then by these shall they perish.

this is not officially "the word" but Enoch is mentioned in the NT and apparently pleased god so much that he didn't have to experience death

&Abel · Nov 18, 2008

Enoch was Noah's great grandfather btw(pretty sure it was "great")

brinny · Nov 18, 2008

where did you find the book of Enoch?

lostintranslation · Nov 18, 2008

We all seem to think different things. It's so hard to know which bits are literal and which bits are metaphorical. Thanks for all your responses though, guys.

God Bless.

Please help. I keep getting asked this question and it's making be wonder

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