No. What leads you to think that everyone has identical hearts?What causes an unsaved person to choose Christ? What causes another person to reject Christ? Don't they have identical hearts?
Gladly.Please explain:
"But, when one believes, they ARE saved at that moment and at that moment possess eternal life, which guarantees that they shall never perish."
I cannot “proof” from scripture lots of stuff like all people drink water and need sleep. Trust (having faith) seems to be natural. Scripture talks a lot about stop trusting in armies, your money, your nation, your personal good deeds, your gods, your walls, and so on. It also tells us to trust in God and someday every knee shall bow to him (seeking God’s help since nothing else is left to trust in). To suggest a mature responsible adult has no power to trust in something means he/she does not have any other God (food, sex, power, money, etc.), yet the scripture would suggest all mature responsible adults have their god or gods.
No. What leads you to think that everyone has identical hearts?
Faith comes from the heart.
Rom 10:10 - For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
I don't come to that conclusion. I'm not sure what is meant by "equal hearts". Does everyone have equal intellects?You say that the heart generates faith. In that scenario, the hearts must be equal if the opportunity is equal.
Rom 10:10 tells us that we believe from the heart. So, which verse tells us that God causes our hearts to believe?God gives faith to some, saving them, and leaves the rest to their just condemnation.
Yes, this is the classic "election" scenario.God gives faith to some, saving them, and leaves the rest to their just condemnation.
Actually, there are no verses that say that man is unable to believe the gospel.Yes, this is the classic "election" scenario.
There are countless NT verses which say that ...
man is absolutely unable to believe in the gospel,
which is utter "foolishness" to those who are perishing.
They do not choose to see it as foolishness ...
they just simply cannot help but see it as foolishness!
Every human being has the opportunity to understand and believe the gospel. It's not a one-time thing. Romans 1:19,20 indicates that because God has revealed Himself and His divine attributes to everyone, no one has any excuse for not glorifying Him and giving Him thanks.However, it is just possible that God gives everyone a
free-will choice/chance by putting up a temporary wall,
blocking all hindrances ... while they are given a
one-time(?) opportunity to repent and choose Jesus.
What or who causes one sinner to have faith and another to not have faith?
God is the author and finisher of our faith. It is a gift from God lest any man or woman should boast. Not everyone is given that gift. Only those given to the Son by the Father receive the is given the gift.What or who causes one sinner to have faith and another to not have faith?
Hi Marvin!God is the author and finisher of our faith. It is a gift from God lest any man or woman should boast. Not everyone is given that gift. Only those given to the Son by the Father receive the is given the gift.
Yes, God does reveal. Otherwise, no one could know what God wants man to believe.When Peter confessed Jesus as Lord - the Lord said that flesh and blood did not reveal it to him but the Father in Heaven.
The Bible tells us clearly who is given the Holy Spirit.No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. It is obvious from the scriptures that not everyone is given the Holy Spirit.
The clear truth is that God created humanity with an intellect with which to understand what God has revealed about Himself and what He wants humanity to know. Rom 1;19-20.People don't like the implications of that. Some here will try to refute this notion. But, when the dust settles, it will remain the simple scripture truth none the less.
[Staff edit].Hi Marvin!..... the Calvinist notion that God is the cause of our act of believing cannot be substantiated from Scripture. Man believes from his heart, not because God makes him believe. Rom 10:10.
Of course men are free to believe or refuse (relatively free of course). No one has said otherwise.the Bible says twice in Acts that men "refused to believe" and 3 times in Revelation that men "refused to repent". So man IS free to believe or refuse.
Receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit and being sealed for eternity by Him is received because of faith.The Bible tells us clearly who is given the Holy Spirit.
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?
Of course. That’s why humanity is without excuse. They are condemned because they will not believe.The clear truth is that God created humanity with an intellect with which to understand what God has revealed about Himself and what He wants humanity to know. Rom 1;19-20.
Yes it is. No one can come to the Son unless drawn by the Father. God draws them by opening the hearts of certain people and not others.What is not found in Scripture is that God chooses who will believe, which is the foundation for the Calvinist (and erroneous) doctrine of election.
Not at all.Not difficult at all.
Actually, poster Dave L is a Calvinist and he says just that. Come to think of it, a number of Calvinists on this forum have said that believers only believe because God has given them that belief. They have no choice in the matter.No “Calvinist” teaches that God “makes men believe”, as you charge.
Is your view that opening the heart is tantamount to causing belief?Of course men believe from their hearts. God opens their hearts.
“One of them was Lydia from Thyatira, a merchant of expensive purple cloth, who worshiped God. As she listened to us, the Lord opened her heart, and she accepted what Paul was saying.” Acts 16:14
But revealing truth in no way guarantees the result of believing the truth. Just ask any school teacher.“And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.” Matthew 16:17
Don't you see the issue? If God regenerates some, in order for them to believe, then certainly He is the cause of belief in those He has so chosen. No different than "making men believe".God gives some men new hearts through which they believe. No “Calvinist” teaches that God “makes men believe”, as you charge. Nor do I.
I think you are missing the point. One is not really free to believe if God has to first regenerate them so they will believe. That should be obvious.Of course men are free to believe or refuse (relatively free of course). No one has said otherwise.
Nope. Please share any verse that actually says that regeneration precedes faith in Christ.But the fact from scripture is that men do not and cannot believe without God’s special grace in opening their heart (giving them a new heart).
Yes.Receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit and being sealed for eternity by Him is received because of faith.
I will wait for any verse that says that regeneration precedes believing. Unless the Bible says it, it is just an opinion, an assumption.Faith is exercised by those with new hearts.
Back to square 1. If one can only believe IF they have been regenerated by God, then they HAVE AN EXCUSE.Of course. That’s why humanity is without excuse. They are condemned because they will not believe.
Please read the very next verse, because it explains v.44.Yes it is. No one can come to the Son unless drawn by the Father. God draws them by opening the hearts of certain people and not others.
Anti Calvinists often charge that God "makes" people choose this or that. But that is not what Calvinists teach or believe.Actually, poster Dave L is a Calvinist and he says just that. Come to think of it, a number of Calvinists on this forum have said that believers only believe because God has given them that belief. They have no choice in the matter.
@Dave L am I correct in this Dave?
That is not true.They have no choice in the matter.
I said nothing of anti-Calvinists. So obviously you didn't read my post.Anti Calvinists often charge that God "makes" people choose this or that. But that is not what Calvinists teach or believe.
Giving one an ability to believe and making one believe are not the same thing.
You said :
That is not true.
People make their own choice to believe out of the ability they possess.
Their new inclination may be to do right - just as their old inclination was to do wrong. But that does not speak to "forcing" anyone to do right or wrong.
NO.Is your view that opening the heart is tantamount to causing belief?
Jesus clearly told us that all those given to the Son by the Father are drawn to the Son by the Father and that they will come to the Son. Jesus said it was guaranteed and I believe what Jesus said.But revealing truth in no way guarantees the result of believing the truth. Just ask any school teacher.
Men are created in the image of God and are able to make intelligent choices. God does not take that ability away simply by giving them a nature which however strongly tends toward making the right choice...............How is that different from God making men believe?
Adam (or anyone else) was free to choose right or free to choose wrong.I think you are missing the point. One is not really free to believe if God has to first regenerate them so they will believe. That should be obvious.
1st - please define what you believe "regeneration" means concisely and in what context you are using it.Please share any verse that actually says that regeneration precedes faith in Christ. Then I will prove the opposite, from Scripture.
Do you believe that Calvinists teach that the Holy Spirit opening of the heart of a man or woman is the same as permanently indwelling and sealing them? If so you are wrong.Yes.
See my request above. Define regeneration concisely. Are you assuming that either Calvinists or I think that permanent indwelling and sealing by the Holy Spirit are done before believing? If so you are wrong about that.I will wait for any verse that says that regeneration precedes believing. Unless the Bible says it, it is just an opinion, an assumption.
Men are without excuse for their sin as we are clearly told. You seem to think that God is somehow to be faulted or that it is not fair of God that man was placed under a curse after the fall and that the wrath of God is being revealed in this present age through the abandonment of sinners to more sin - including the sin of unbelief. You need to revisit the first part of Romans on that.Back to square 1. If one can only believe IF they have been regenerated by God, then they HAVE AN EXCUSE.
At the Great White Throne Judgment, the unbeliever will have the legitimate defense that God didn't choose for him to believe, therefore he couldn't believe apart from that new heart that Calvin talked about.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?