Please explain! Caveman, evolution etc

Guy Threepwood said:

But somewhere between a simple fin, and a complex leg with multiple joints- yes there will be new specific functional information required,

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That's enough for me ^. With that, I'll conclude that in our evolutionary history, we have acquired new specific functional information.

KomatiiteBIF said:

That's enough for me ^. With that, I'll conclude that in our evolutionary history, we have acquired new specific functional information.

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Me too, but you're not curious how?

Guy Threepwood said:

Me too, but you're not curious how?

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I'm happy to take what I can get personally. Much of society doesn't accept that we've defended from fish at all. So I'll take the baby steps forward.

You're welcome to share your theory though.

KomatiiteBIF said:

I don't base my world view only on what scripture says. Especially as a scientist.

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I understand your thoughts very well and I once said the same thing. Now I see it differently.

God is with the weak, comforts the broken and makes a whole nation out of an old man and an unfertile woman. That contradicts the law of evolution which is: The strong and healthy proveil.

The so called enlightenment and the evolution theory caused much harm to humanity. If I think the strong will succeed, then (if I'm in the position) I can accelerate the process by killing the weak and breed the strong. You see? That's what happend in history.

Personally I find it harder to believe in evolution than in Gods word.

SisterFromGermany said:

I understand your thoughts very well and I once said the same thing. Now I see it differently.

God is with the weak, comforts the broken and makes a whole nation out of an old man and an unfertile woman. That contradicts the law of evolution which is: The strong and healthy proveil.

The so called enlightenment and the evolution theory caused much harm to humanity. If I think the strong will succeed, then (if I'm in the position) I can accelerate the process by killing the weak and breed the strong. You see? That's what happend in history.

Personally I find it harder to believe in evolution than in Gods word.

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There is no such thing as a law of evolution. You have to understand the science before you claim to understand my thoughts.

SisterFromGermany said:

I understand your thoughts very well and I once said the same thing. Now I see it differently.

God is with the weak, comforts the broken and makes a whole nation out of an old man and an unfertile woman. That contradicts the law of evolution which is: The strong and healthy proveil.

The so called enlightenment and the evolution theory caused much harm to humanity. If I think the strong will succeed, then (if I'm in the position) I can accelerate the process by killing the weak and breed the strong. You see? That's what happend in history.

Personally I find it harder to believe in evolution than in Gods word.

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It is a good point, the Nazis (and others) explicitly used this perceived 'law' of nature as a justification to try to 'take charge' of the destiny of the human genetic line

Not to equate all believers with this horrific logic for one second (or Germans for that matter! , obviously the overwhelming majority are well meaning people, and even evolutionists understand better today, that the human genome is not simply floating aimlessly on the wind - but that it is more constrained around a 'master blueprint' - this was not as well understood in the early 20th C.

Guy Threepwood said:

It is a good point, the Nazis (and others) explicitly used this perceived 'law' of nature as a justification to try to 'take charge' of the destiny of the human genetic line

Not to equate all believers with this horrific logic for one second (or Germans for that matter! , obviously the overwhelming majority are well meaning people, and even evolutionists understand better today, that the human genome is not simply floating aimlessly on the wind - but that it is more constrained around a 'master blueprint' - this was not as well understood in the early 20th C.

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Sorry I didn't mean that believers do think that way. When I believed the evolution I really loved and read much about it.

It was a friend who brought me to those ideas. I just wanted to say that there are dangers, even today with genetically modified babies. But you are right, my thoughts are too dark, I'll try better.

SisterFromGermany said:

Sorry I didn't mean that believers do think that way. When I believed the evolution I really loved and read much about it.

It was a friend who brought me to those ideas. I just wanted to say that there are dangers, even today with genetically modified babies. But you are right, my thoughts are too dark, I'll try better.

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understood- it was not meant as a criticism! I believed in evolution for years also and like to think I had the best intentions! We all believe in something, and those beliefs can change. So I think as long as we recognize those beliefs as such- not try to force them on others as 'undeniable facts', we can all get along?

Guy Threepwood said:

understood- it was not meant as a criticism! I believed in evolution for years also and like to think I had the best intentions! We all believe in something, and those beliefs can change. So I think as long as we recognize those beliefs as such- not try to force them on others as 'undeniable facts', we can all get along?

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You're a wise man.

SisterFromGermany said:

You're a wise man.

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Thank you, likewise (wise lady!) - I should probably leave here on someone saying something nice for a change!

No, I like the conversation with you very much. I really mean it, you are wise. It's true, everybody lives more or less on the basis of his or her own thoughts. Nobody should force his opinion on another (as a child of 2 teachers it's not always easy for me).

SisterFromGermany said:

No, I like the conversation with you very much. I really mean it, you are wise. It's true, everybody lives more or less on the basis of his or her own thoughts. Nobody should force his opinion on another (as a child of 2 teachers it's not always easy for me).

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True and we cannot fight free will- to make everyone 'agree' without terrible consequences.
I'd say that is the great strength of faith, an acknowledgement of personal belief

science 'the method' we all know and love, but so often in history the word is used to declare 'unquestionable truth'- how do you ever progress from this?

I don't think it is any coincidence, that some of the greatest scientists in modern history like Planck, Lemaitre, were notable skeptics of atheism- they were free to question the materialistic assumptions of the 20th century

Some developments were good, some not so good. I think faith in God isn't real until it is questioned and tested.

SisterFromGermany said:

Some developments were good, some not so good. I think faith in God isn't real until it is questioned and tested.

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Yes, some technology we could probably do without for sure!

and I suppose that's the value of materialism/atheism/naturalism- to me it all ends up supporting God all the more, in searching for 'natural' explanations, we only discover how improbable those are

there is no "ape, man, alien, ape".

that should tell you something about how accurate Evolution's claim of "ape, man" really is.

that said, the ecology would not work if every creature was docile, predators are needed (and Evolution ensures people are not just theologians, anti-theists are needed (for a working culture)).

Bacey92 said:

Hi there,

I'm hoping someone can explain this to me so I can understand it better.

God created Adam and Eve, I'm guessing they looked like us? If that's the case where does evolution fit in?

If the very first creation looked like we do today, why are there so many different looking people. I don't mean different race, specifically tribal people.

I'm also just assuming Adam and Eve looked like we do today, if I am right, why did God also create very different looking people like Homo habilis and cavemen etc.

I'm sorry if it's a silly question, I'm very curious though.

Thank you!

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Not a question that just can be answered without studying the process of evolution. Or an answer that can be given without knowing the mind of God. All we can really do is assume what God did. Scripture says he called for the earth to bring forth the trees, he called for the earth to bring forth sea life, he called for the earth to bring forth beast on the land, and everything that has life is a part of the Earth, whatever minerals the Earth has all life have within them. Scripture says he formed man - man is personal, he breathed the breath of life into man, man is special. He did not call man forth from the Earth as he did the others, he made man. My opinion is: he seeded the Earth with life, because all things come from seeds - the earth brought forth the life that he seeded with - and when he decided to form man from the dust of the earth, he just changed a few genetic codes and a few chromosomes in apelike animals that already existed - he called for the earth to bring forth the animals before he formed man in here.
The different nationalities of people could be a result of Genesis 6. Where the Sons of God, who Where Angels, married the daughters of man. They had children not only Giants but others also - the Giants are mentioned first - then it says - when the Sons of God came into the daughters of men and they bare children unto them, the same became Mighty Men which were of old, men of renown. The Book of Enoch which is a part of the Hebrew Scrolls, gives great detail on that issue. When one pays attention to God's creations he loves color - and he could have embedded different genetic sequences in Adam for the different people to come forth at specific times.
Science/evolution of man goes back to the Australopithecus Afarensis, Heidelbergensis as the starting point of the modern human race. Apparently they existed because they've found fossils - and they believe because of genetic, DNA, and chromosomes info, man evolve from them - they have no belief in a Creator so evolution comes to play. And if you go back further in evolution, according to paleontologists Neil Shubin, and others - we are all fish, fish who walked out of the water over millions of years ago, evolved into animals including the dinosaurs, and through the process of evolution, continued to evolve, which simply put means changed from this to that. And by the way; the whole process of evolution began when living organisms fell down to Earth from space, panspermia and abiogenesis are the theories most used. And it was through genetic mutations we have the different nationalities. Mutations which some reports say started thirty thousand years ago, some Reports say as near as 10,000 years ago. They have found the different genes in various nationalities that led to diverseness. Some mutations that are said to be ongoing. One would actually have to read the many, many, various reports on Evolution and mutations to full get a grasp.

Q

Guy Threepwood said:

Point being: losing anything is easy; blind fish or flightless birds, nobody debates the ability of random errors in DNA to destroy functional organs

random errors doing the exact opposite- giving sight to an animal that had none- is an entirely different proposition

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So what if the genetic info for sight was already there to be utilized and it was just a case of switching on or activating that information. Would that make a difference as to how a creature could evolve a new trait or perhaps a small step in that direction.

stevevw said:

So what if the genetic info for sight was already there to be utilized and it was just a case of switching on or activating that information. Would that make a difference as to how a creature could evolve a new trait or perhaps a small step in that direction.

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I'd say that is looking more likely- I have even heard it made as a 'secular' argument- 'no need for divine intervention, because the necessary information was already there'

That's fine, but Darwinism it ain't! (natural selection acting on random variation) And obviously begs the question: where did the information come from, and what is activating it?

Guy Threepwood said:

I'd say that is looking more likely- I have even heard it made as a 'secular' argument- 'no need for divine intervention, because the necessary information was already there'

That's fine, but Darwinism it ain't! (natural selection acting on random variation) And obviously begs the question: where did the information come from, and what is activating it?

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Yes these are important questions. It may be that enviromental conditions can cause the development system to respond to those particular pressures in nonrandom ways.

Most creatures have similar traits so evolution has been biased towards certain features rather than any random feature through shared developmental regulation. This is seen in the repeated aquition of specific features like digits, limbs, body segments and eyes through the re-use of developmental modules which allow new features to develop through the rearrangements of existing genetic info.

There is also evidence that epigenetics plays more of a dominant role than thought. The way creatures live and the environmental pressures they experience can affect the way genetic info is expressed. This may cause non-random responses in response to those conditions. There is a scope with existing genetic info that can allow living things to adapt. But that scope is limited to only certain features which have already been determined as most suitable for most conditions faced by organisms.
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/282/1813/20151019

Bacey92 said:

Hi there,

I'm hoping someone can explain this to me so I can understand it better.

God created Adam and Eve, I'm guessing they looked like us? If that's the case where does evolution fit in?

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This depends a great deal on how one approaches the story about Adam and Eve; for example, how literal is it?

I would argue that trying to force the story of Adam and Eve into the science of evolution is going to be prone to any variety of possible problems. Instead, I think it far more relevant to ask ourselves what is it that those early chapters of Genesis are telling us, what is their point? And those are, fundamentally, theological matters, rather than scientific ones. As far as scientific observations go, the theory of evolution has the explanatory power to address what we observe in the real world.

But it is understandable to wonder, if there were two people called Adam and Eve, how do they fit into the evolution of hominids. I think the most honest answer would be that we don't know--and that's okay.

What is clear is that human beings really are all related to one another, after all we all share common ancestry as homo sapiens; what the story of our first parents helps illustrate is our universal shared humanity. That universal shared humanity is also a humanity that is broken, fractured, and injured by sin and death; which is why we as fallen creatures inhabiting a fallen world need the salvation that is in Jesus Christ. Who as the second Adam has undone Adam's error, thus bringing renewal, healing, and redemption to humanity, and indeed to all creation. As we look forward to that Day when Christ returns, the dead are raised, and God makes all things new.

If the very first creation looked like we do today, why are there so many different looking people. I don't mean different race, specifically tribal people.

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What do you mean "looked like we do today" who is "we"? What do you mean by "tribal people"?

Human beings are diverse and varied in their gene expression because of various mutations and adaptations in human populations as homo sapiens spread across the globe. In regions further away from the equator, human populations tended to develop fairer skin; while in equatorial climes people have darker skin. This has to do with the pigment melanin, melanin makes skin dark. In places where there is more overall exposure to solar radiation--e.g. near or at the equator--a higher concentration of melanin is more beneficial because it protects the skin from said solar radiation; however when there is less overall solar radiation, less melanin can be beneficial because it means absorbing more UV light which is necessary in the production of vitamin D in the body. A side effect of this is that in some populations genetic mutations related to melanin production have also resulted in some populations having less melanin in their hair, which results in various lighter shades from brown, to red hair, to blonde. Likewise it is those same mechanisms that have an effect on eye color.

And that's true of other population features, such as hair texture, prominent features, or any host of other genetic expressions that manifest in populations.

So human beings are diverse because the mechanisms which make evolution happen are always happening.

I'm also just assuming Adam and Eve looked like we do today, if I am right, why did God also create very different looking people like Homo habilis and cavemen etc.

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We aren't the only hominids who have existed. Homo habilis is an extinct species of homo; either a direct ancestor of our lineage or an offshoot from a common ancestor.

The term "caveman" is pretty diverse. Homo sapiens in many parts of the world have used caves as shelter, as did other members of the genus homo.

But the reason for the diversity of hominid types we find in the fossil record is because our evolution was long and complex, and is part of the large family tree of all life on this planet.

God is the Maker of all things, seen and unseen, and so the vast and amazing things we observe in the natural world are the product of His design. Evolution, like every other mechanism of the natural world, is part of God's creative order. Why God made the universe to function the way it does isn't a question any person is qualified to answer.

Why did God create the universe with the fundamental forces and elementary particles that He did? Why gravity? Why anything? Ultimately that's something He alone knows. I take comfort in this though, that all that exists isn't an accident, or mere coincidence; for St. Paul says that all things were by by Christ and for Christ. The universe is Christocentric, Jesus is the reason for existence, and everything finds its fullness in Him. And so what God has planned for the universe is beyond comprehension.

-CryptoLutheran

I'm sorry if it's a silly question, I'm very curious though.

Thank you!

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