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Philosophy is Dangerous

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That's pretty darn funny, but it also contains a very profound truth: society stigmatizes those who think freely, and philosophy is the gateway of such freedom. The reason why it's scoffed at, though, isn't often given.

And I think the answer is simple enough. Free thinking questions culture, including its beliefs and values. Undermining culture means undermining the group. That's an evolutionary disadvantage; put another way, philosophy is a way to individuality, which transcends the evolution-stamped urge to the in-group.

There's a real spoiling element to questioning culture. You realize that most people follow the dance moves without really intrinsically valuing them. I have a brilliant client who is questioning the culture of femininity, if you will. She says she has no desire to dress in ways that other women find "female", and often needs the guidance of others to look "appropriate". She has looked beyond culture and analyzed it to its core. What happens when you do this, whether through reasoning or a simple lack of experience (notice how "strange" other cultures appear to us), is you see the behaviors that have no inherent meaning for many of their contributors. It's one thing to dress business-style because you really like how you look; quite another to dress this way because "it's the right thing to do."

So philosophy is insatiable. It works from the vantage point of what's good for the individual in terms of finding what's really true. The philosopher is by definition the outlier, even when he's in the presence of other philosophers.

And groups don't like outliers.
 

Paradoxum

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Ah, Kant man, that's hardcore ;)

That's some pure practical reason for ya.


Is philosophy scoffed at though?

Edit: Perhaps the below answers that question.

Maybe. Or maybe free thinking is overrated. Why should we criticize those who choose to conform?

Lets kill the witches! Inquisition their arses!
 
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Maybe. Or maybe free thinking is overrated. Why should we criticize those who choose to conform?

Good question. Short answer: because they would be happier if they didn't conform *as a rule* (that is, value the group because it's a group, act in ways that look good to the group and not to the individual, etc.); close to all people value happiness (actually, happiness is arguably inherent in value); therefore, there's room for correction.
 
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Paradoxum

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Not sure I get you.

Not thinking allows people to think stupid things. Its not just that free thinking it meant to lead to the truth, but it also release us from accepted immorality.
 
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Resha Caner

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because they would be happier if they didn't conform

I'm not sure that's true in all cases. Maybe for some, but not necessarily for all.

One of my pet peeves at work is management's desire to make everyone a "leader." Hmm. If they were successful who would do the work? And if they don't literally mean everyone, then don't say it. Value those who contribute in ways other than leadership.

Bottom line - saying everyone must be a free thinker is an oddly twisted request for everyone to conform to free thinking. It's like the joke about the 2 gates into heaven. The first says, "Those who controlled their life," and the second says "Those who's life was controlled." When a man was asked why he stood at the first gate, he replied, "Because my wife told me to."
 
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I'm not sure that's true in all cases. Maybe for some, but not necessarily for all.

One of my pet peeves at work is management's desire to make everyone a "leader." Hmm. If they were successful who would do the work? And if they don't literally mean everyone, then don't say it. Value those who contribute in ways other than leadership.

Bottom line - saying everyone must be a free thinker is an oddly twisted request for everyone to conform to free thinking. It's like the joke about the 2 gates into heaven. The first says, "Those who controlled their life," and the second says "Those who's life was controlled." When a man was asked why he stood at the first gate, he replied, "Because my wife told me to."

Maybe some people, perhaps a significant portion, aren't genetically constituted to deal with the challenges of thinking. That's really what it comes down to, excepting mental disabilities with onsets during life.

As for free thinking, there is no conformity involved with it by definition. The idea of free thinking club or culture is self-negating. Now, there's a clearly fancy group of people who pride themselves on being free thinkers. For some they mean it honestly, and really do evaluate things individually; for others, perhaps most, it's yet another swing toward a specific in-group, particularly one that flicks its nose at those they perceive to be less rationally equipped or intelligent as them. Yes, that's funny, and somewhat sad, but free thinking has no club by virtue of being what it is.
 
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Resha Caner

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Not thinking allows people to think stupid things.

I've seen a lot of stupid free thinking ... uh ... but not here at CF. No, never happens here.

Its not just that free thinking it meant to lead to the truth, but it also release us from accepted immorality.

So? If a leader encourages a group to follow, then isn't he taking on moral responsibility for them all? Why does it need to be individuated?

Is everyone capable of free thinking?
 
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Paradoxum

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I've seen a lot of stupid free thinking ... uh ... but not here at CF. No, never happens here.

Well it should be grounded on rational thinking as well of course. That is also the point of philosophy. Bad philosophies do appear sometimes, and sometimes these are twisted in a way that causes immorality (eg: communism). Nevertheless, modern capitalism has its problems.

So? If a leader encourages a group to follow, then isn't he taking on moral responsibility for them all? Why does it need to be individuated?

Why should we trust the leader? How do we know the leader is free thinking? Its all well and good until your family is taken away and no one helps because their priest told them it was for the best. At that point you wish they could rationally think for themselves.

Is everyone capable of free thinking?

I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. I would say that simply being able to defend ones mind from ideological deception is more import and maybe easier.
 
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Resha Caner

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Well it should be grounded on rational thinking as well of course.

Which is ...?

Why should we trust the leader? How do we know the leader is free thinking?

Indeed. How do we know that? After all, we must allow for some human frailty. Maybe we need to accept a standard that is above us all.

Its all well and good until your family is taken away and no one helps because their priest told them it was for the best. At that point you wish they could rationally think for themselves.

Do you remember your thread on altruism?
 
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Paradoxum

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Which is ...?

Knowing what a valid argument is? Being able to pick out problems in arguments?

Indeed. How do we know that? After all, we must allow for some human frailty. Maybe we need to accept a standard that is above us all.

Well it would be good if some basic ethic could be accepted by ethicists.

Do you remember your thread on altruism?

What about it?
 
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Paradoxum

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Sometimes sacrifice is necessary.

I have no idea what that means in this situation? I was refer a situation where an ideological government takes away people who it seems counter to its purposes, and what you are saying sounds like that is ok.
 
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Resha Caner

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I have no idea what that means in this situation? I was refer a situation where an ideological government takes away people who it seems counter to its purposes, and what you are saying sounds like that is ok.

You mentioned a priest and I interpreted "taken away" as a generality.

It is easy to construct hypotheticals we can agree on, but in my experience they don't apply very well to real life situations. I would imagine many people in prison were taken away because they did something counter to government purposes. I would probably agree with the government in some cases and disagree in others.
 
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Paradoxum

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You mentioned a priest and I interpreted "taken away" as a generality.

It is easy to construct hypotheticals we can agree on, but in my experience they don't apply very well to real life situations. I would imagine many people in prison were taken away because they did something counter to government purposes. I would probably agree with the government in some cases and disagree in others.

Ok, I have no idea what we are talking about now ;)
 
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Tatian

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It seems to me that everbody thinks as freely as they can (afford to).

That really is a great quote, isn't it. Sometimes fear of peoples reactions may stymie us from taking our best logical thinking to it's conclusion. I experienced it for sometime among Christian friends when I started getting greater depth in science. I wrestled with the issue of evolution, not wanting to accept it, mostly because I knew how hard it would be with some friends of mine who were quite fundamental. I continued on as a creationist for a short while longer knowing that I didn't agree with it. Eventually, intellectual integrity won out.

In any event, I think free thinking is actually very strongly encouraged. In a way, I think it might be over emphasized, perhaps because of what it has lead us to. There is so much counter-culture that uses such phrases as free thinking that its getting to the point that if you just happen to agree with someone else, or even worse, a major movement, you must not be thinking for yourself. So much history and thinking has lead us to the point to where it's just about impossible to actually have a thought of your own because chances are, someone has come up with it before you, and there are so many people throughout history that you could probably find a movement based on it, if not now than at some point in history.
 
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