Philosophical argument for the temporality of the universe

[JBrian]

What is eternal is necessarily outside of time. Whatever is outside of time is also outside of change, since change only occurs within time, that is, there is a before and an after. The universe is changing, therefore the universe is not outside of time (eternal), and is temporal.

 

[Avatar]

Blah. Eternal means 'all time'. The universe is necessarily eternal since it has existed for all time (time having begun with the universe).

 

[Soul_Searcher]

Hi Brian,

"What is eternal is necessarily outside of time. Whatever is outside of time is also outside of change, since change only occurs within time, that is, there is a before and an after. The universe is changing, therefore the universe is not outside of time (eternal), and is temporal."

Another way of looking at it is anything that is temporary is not real. So what is eternal?

 

[JJB]

e·ter·nal ([FONT=verdana, sans-serif] P [/FONT]) Pronunciation Key (

-tûr

n

l)
adj.

1. Being without beginning or end; existing outside of time. See Synonyms at infinite.
2. Continuing without interruption; perpetual.
3. Forever true or changeless: eternal truths.
4. Seemingly endless; interminable. See Synonyms at ageless. See Synonyms at continual.
5. Of or relating to spiritual communion with God, especially in the afterlife.

n.

1. Something timeless, uninterrupted, or endless.
2. Eternal God. Used with the.

 

[JBrian]

Blah. Eternal means 'all time'. The universe is necessarily eternal since it has existed for all time (time having begun with the universe).

Eternal means atemporal, that is, outside of time. I agree with you that the universe has existed for all time, and that time has only existed since the creation of the universe. However, your argument states that "time . . . begun with the universe." However, if time (and the universe ) began, then it is not eternal.

 

[JBrian]

Hi Brian,

"What is eternal is necessarily outside of time. Whatever is outside of time is also outside of change, since change only occurs within time, that is, there is a before and an after. The universe is changing, therefore the universe is not outside of time (eternal), and is temporal."

Another way of looking at it is anything that is temporary is not real. So what is eternal?

Hello. I am not sure what you mean by "anything that is temporary is not real." Could you clarify that?

 

[Soul_Searcher]

Hi Avatar,

"Blah. Eternal means 'all time'. The universe is necessarily eternal since it has existed for all time (time having begun with the universe)."

Really? How do you know? Couldn't our universe have been born from another? Or a collision of others? Won't our universe end sometime? Either by collapsing or expanding until the stars all burn out? That's hardly eternal.

 

[Avatar]

Then eternal is a philosophical abstract, having no real meaning.

 

[Avatar]

Really? How do you know? Couldn't our universe have been born from another? Or a collision of others? Won't our universe end sometime? Either by collapsing or expanding until the stars all burn out? That's hardly eternal.

If this universe was born of others that doesn't negate the fact theat time began with the universe, we just need to broaden our definition of the univrse to include those prior states. And when our universe ends, so also will end time. If time fails to end then the universe hasn't ended, since time is a property of the universe.

 

[Soul_Searcher]

Hi Avatar,

"If this universe was born of others that doesn't negate the fact theat time began with the universe, we just need to broaden our definition of the univrse to include those prior states. And when our universe ends, so also will end time. If time fails to end then the universe hasn't ended, since time is a property of the universe."

I find this intriguing coming from someone who believes in God. So when this universe is extinguished, is God too then extinguished?

 

[Avatar]

Hi Avatar,

"If this universe was born of others that doesn't negate the fact theat time began with the universe, we just need to broaden our definition of the univrse to include those prior states. And when our universe ends, so also will end time. If time fails to end then the universe hasn't ended, since time is a property of the universe."

I find this intriguing coming from someone who believes in God. So when this universe is extinguished, is God too then extinguished?

You're thinking of time differently than you would think of the other three dimensions. And you shouldn't. God is the totality of time, there is nothing beyond that. So there can never be a 'time' where God is extinguished.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

What is eternal is necessarily outside of time. Whatever is outside of time is also outside of change, since change only occurs within time, that is, there is a before and an after. The universe is changing, therefore the universe is not outside of time (eternal), and is temporal.

The universe does not exist within time.

 

[Avatar]

The universe does not exist within time.

testify, brother atheist!

 

[Soul_Searcher]

Hi Avatar,

"You're thinking of time differently than you would think of the other three dimensions. And you shouldn't. God is the totality of time, there is nothing beyond that. So there can never be a 'time' where God is extinguished."

No, I'm thinking there are more things under Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are thought of in your philosophy. You limit time and the three dimensions to what we can experience, not taking into account that which we cannot fathom.

 

[Avatar]

Hi Avatar,

"You're thinking of time differently than you would think of the other three dimensions. And you shouldn't. God is the totality of time, there is nothing beyond that. So there can never be a 'time' where God is extinguished."

No, I'm thinking there are more things under Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are thought of in your philosophy. You limit time and the three dimensions to what we can experience, not taking into account that which we cannot fathom.

How can one take into account that which one cannot fathom?

And how did you know my name is Horatio?

 

[quatona]

Then eternal is a philosophical abstract, having no real meaning.

 

[JBrian]

The universe does not exist within time.

The universe is changing, and that can only happen in a series of "before and after." The universe operates within time. Time exists with space and matter. Therefore, the universe is not outside of time. If it was, it would be unchanging.

 

[franklin]

What is eternal is necessarily outside of time. Whatever is outside of time is also outside of change, since change only occurs within time, that is, there is a before and an after. The universe is changing, therefore the universe is not outside of time (eternal), and is temporal.

False premise right from the start. Your argument falls flat on it's face.

If God created time and space (the universe) how can God exist without it?

 

[Casstranquility]

What is eternal is necessarily outside of time. Whatever is outside of time is also outside of change, since change only occurs within time, that is, there is a before and an after. The universe is changing, therefore the universe is not outside of time (eternal), and is temporal.

I say the universe is within time, but never ends because it bursts forth, then retracts upon itself, and bursts forth again. It is an eternal cycle of rebirth. The point where it ends is also its beginning.

 

[Avatar]

I say the universe is within time, but never ends because it bursts forth, then retracts upon itself, and bursts forth again. It is an eternal cycle of rebirth. The point where it ends is also its beginning.

Like the beating of a cosmic heart. I think so too, but I'm not sure its very Catholic of me.