[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] How can you not believe in Evolution?!

Uphill Battle · Aug 23, 2006

MrGoodBytes said:
Contrary to popular belief, the idea of a flat earth was disbanded very early in history. In the 1st century BC at the latest, every scholar agreed that the earth is spherical - and you can't really say that there was something like the "scientific consensus"before that time.

the time the consensus changed is irrelevant.

TheBear · Aug 23, 2006

Uphill Battle said:
I wish the word fundamentalist wasn't such a dirty word.

AnEmpiricalAgnostic · Aug 23, 2006

Uphill Battle said:
I wish the word fundamentalist wasn't such a dirty word.

I wish fundamentalists understood why it is.

MrGoodBytes · Aug 23, 2006

Uphill Battle said:
the time the consensus changed is irrelevant.

It's not. Before the 16th century, science as we know it wasn't really practiced yet.

Uphill Battle · Aug 23, 2006

MrGoodBytes said:
It's not. Before the 16th century, science as we know it wasn't practiced yet.

as we know it, sure. Never disputed it. But there is little difference in the majority rules idea used... Now at the hazard of derailing completely....

random_guy · Aug 23, 2006

Uphill Battle said:
Hey random.

Thanks for replying. As to your 2nd part, isn't quoting "Majority rules" technically an error in logic?

It's not so much a "majority rules" argument as pointing out that consensus has been formed based on the evidence and that Christian geologists (I assume that 99% has quite a few Christian scientists) also agree with the evidence. Basically, RichardT thinks (from what I understand) that there is possibly a conspiracy or a bias such that only evolutionary views are accepted.

I first proved him wrong by showing that Christian geologists, long before the Theory of Evolution, disproved the Global Flood. For his second point that perhap science has improved, and early geologists were wrong, I point out that even now, less geologists accept a Global Flood with the new advances in science.

However, like you said, "major rules" argument doesn't work, including in science. Before Einstein, physicists all thought Newton was the bees knees. That changed rather quickly, and we even learned that the Law of Universal Gravitation was incorrect under certain conditions.

That said, based on the current scientific evidence, there is no sign that a Global Flood occurred on the Earth. Not only that, the idea was falsified. This means that we would have to make some sort of super discovery to bring it back. It would be the equivalent of finding out that the Earth was flat (which was also falsified). I hope that makes sense.

Finally, about the Flat Earth, I love to point this out, but back in the ancient days, the Greeks knew that the Earth wasn't flat. In fact, one Greek (can't remember his name) even calculated the circumference of the Earth.

TeddyKGB · Aug 23, 2006

Uphill Battle said:
at one point, the scientific consensus was that the earth was flat. (insomuch as it was archaic "science.") There is always the possibility that the majority, even if experts, are wrong.

That's a terribly trite comparison. The "experts's" conclusions 3000 years ago were based on virtually no data. That's hardly the case with modern geology. There are simply too many independent lines of evidence for a single "magic-bullet" falsification.

AV1611VET · Sep 18, 2015

Baggins said:
You win the "tortuous twisting of a biblical quote" award 2006

Congratulations the cheque's in the post.

QV please:

1) The Anticipation of Mass Media and Telecommunications

The Book of Job, one of the oldest books of the Bible, which was written almost 4000 years ago gave us this very interesting verse:

Job 38:35 Canst thou SEND lightnings, that they may go, and SAY unto thee, Here we are?

This ancient scripture seems to suggest that electricity can be used to actually send messages – please remember this was written about 4000 years ago. The very first electrical message was successfully sent by Sir Francis Ronalds’ primitive electrostatic telegraph, which was perfected by Pavel Schilling, who made the electromagnetic telegraph in 1832. Mankind only discovered this property of electricity less than 200 years ago, while the Bible has alluded to this several millennia ago. Please note that this is just the tip of the iceberg!

SOURCE

Strathos · Sep 19, 2015

Ignoring the necro for now, you know what's ironic about claiming that passage anticipated electronic communications?

In the context of the original scripture, God was giving Job a list of things that He could do that humans can't, making the point that Job has no right to question Him.

If you say that that verse refers to electronic communications, then you are saying that humans now actually can do one of the things that God was using to prove His superiority over Job.

In other words, you're elevating humankind to the level of God, which is blasphemy.

AV1611VET · Sep 19, 2015

Strathos said:
Ignoring the necro for now, you know what's ironic about claiming that passage anticipated electronic communications?

In the context of the original scripture, God was giving Job a list of things that He could do that humans can't, making the point that Job has no right to question Him.

If you say that that verse refers to electronic communications, then you are saying that humans now actually can do one of the things that God was using to prove His superiority over Job.

In other words, you're elevating humankind to the level of God, which is blasphemy.

Then why did He give us the Holy Spirit to help some of us discover what He hid in nature.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

... which is supposed to bring glory to Him in these last days?

Strathos · Sep 19, 2015

God was specifically listing things that put Him above humanity in Job. If the events of the book of Job happened today, and Job replied by telling God that His challenges were invalid because we had discovered how to do all those things with science, I have a feeling you wouldn't find that very agreeable, am I right?

Astrophile · Sep 20, 2015

random_guy said:
In fact, one Greek (can't remember his name) even calculated the circumference of the Earth.

Eratosthenes (ca. 276-194 BC).

Jan Volkes · Sep 21, 2015

AV1611VET said:
Then why did He give us the Holy Spirit to help some of us discover what He hid in nature.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

... which is supposed to bring glory to Him in these last days?

Who told you he [whoever 'he' is] did? and what is a 'holy spirit'?
I would hazard a guess and say they were both figments of someone's imagination which you have chosen to believe are real.

Just how long are these 'last days' supposed to last? forever?

DogmaHunter · Sep 22, 2015

JohnR7 said:
It is a known fact that God placed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden around 6,000 years ago.

The only thing about that that is actually a "fact", is that that claim is made in a bronze aged religious text.

For example Theistic Evolutions believe that Adam and Eve evolved and when they reached a stage in their development then God put them in the Garden.

That is simply not true. Ask the pope. According to him "god is not a magician" and human kind evolved just like biology says it did. As far as the vatican is concerned, genesis is a metaphorical as it gets.

But let me guess... you think things about catholics that you can't really share here because it's against the forum rules... correct?

So the bottom line is that there is no conflict between Adam and Eve and Evoluion. Adam and Eve were real people. There is DNA evidence to that effect.

No. There is a so-called "y-chromosome adam" and a "mitochondrial eve" - both of which have nothing whatsoever to do with the christian faith and who actually lived 10s of thousands of years apart.

In recent years the study of DNA has been moving into the area of genealogys or what the Bible calls the generations. They are trying to map out the whole human race from the beginning. This is what we read about in the Bible, the genealogy of mostly the Hebrew and Arab people. So we have an area where the Bible and Science overlap or at least they are talking about the same thing.

No, this is again anything but true.
The family tree of humans goes back hundreds of thousands of years ago in africa, with multiple migrations of small groups, including those who would eventually go on to become neanderthals etc.

This is very much opposed to what the bible claims, if taken literally.

We have to be careful not to not take things out of conflict. Science and religion tends to do this sometimes. Some people believe that Adam and Eve had a belly button. Other people believe they did not. But that does not change that they were there in the land of Eden, 6,000 years ago.

No, they weren't. 6000 years ago, Homo sapiens was already spread out all over the world.

EDIT: AAARRGGHHH.... again fell for a shameless bump of an ancient dead thread. I guess I know who is to blame again for this necromancy. Shame on me for not double checking first.

Pink Spider · Sep 22, 2015

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[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] How can you not believe in Evolution?!

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