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The truth is Jesus and the Holy Sprit confirms the truth. We agree on this. I'm not sure what your motives are by accusing me of not knowing the truth. Faith is my shield the bible is my weapon and Jesus is my leader. If you still choose to not believe I'm a Christian then I'm done trying to convince you. God knows all things and judges those who wrongfully judge.
Please prove I am not a philosophical zombie.
It would appear, some use these shields to protect their faith from reality and some use the weapon you mention to attack others who disagree with them.
I believe you are not a philosophical zombie. If you tell me that you are not then you confirm my belief to be factual. You are not, right?
I lost some brain cells reading this thread.
This is evidence of a person who is stuck on the perceptual level of consciousness. I can observe that you are using concepts and from that I can infer, logically, that you are a conscious individual. The same reasoning does not apply to the concept of gods. I can not logically infer a supernatural consciousness which created everything by an act of conscious will from observing the natural world. I can imagine such a thing, but the primacy of existence principle would show me that what I am imagining could not exist in reality.Really? You can directly observe my consciousness? So you can read my mind then?
Of course you can directly observe your own consciousness, but I can't directly observe your consciousness, the only way I could, is if I became your consciousness.
Therefore, I have to believe(accept the truth) that you are conscious without proof of your consciousness.
Same reasoning can be applied to God. I have to believe(accept the truth) that God exists without proof of God's existence and when I believe in Him, He will present evidence of His existence. That evidence may just be sound reason that makes sense.
This is fantastic. I can contest the concept called "God" without accepting that it is valid first. Do you contest the existence of Zeus? Do you accept that Zeus exists in order to do this? That would be nonsensical.So in order to contest God, you first must accept the truth that God exists. But you don't accept the truth that God exists, so you can't contest this truth. Same thing with consciousness, as you stated above.
True. I can't perceive other people's consciousness in the same way that I can perceive my own but that is not the only way I can perceive consciousness. For instance as I've already pointed out, I can observe others involved in conscious activity such as putting together a response on an internet forum. Unconscious things do not engage in these type of activities.The fact of consciousness is only available on the perceptual level to each individual. We cannot perceive other people's consciousness in the way that that person perceives their own consciousness. Only I(and God) have full access to my conscious mind.
That is so true!It is always strange to see how the ultra-faithful suddenly become hyper-skeptical when it suits their narrative.
Obviously, if I am a philosophical zombie, I would claim that I was not. That's the entire point of a philosophical zombie: philosophical zombies appear to be exactly like regular conscious humans under any examination or trial, but they simply lack consciousness. In other words, there is no difference one can point at to show another person is or is not a philosophical zombie, per the concept of the philosophical zombie itself.
For example, I will make the two following statements as truth claims:
1) I am a philosophical zombie.
2) I am not a philosophical zombie.
Which one of these claims reflects reality. Obviously, I am lying about one of them, but which one?
Why should my testimony be enough for you to claim the belief is factual? If I was on trial for a murder and you believed me to be innocent, would the mere fact alone that I claimed I was innocent be enough for you to claim "not guilty"? If not, why should the same be true here?
Your personal belief on the matter does not help you. Personal beliefs do not have to correspond with reality. You need justification beyond that. Of course, the very concept of the philosophical zombie prevents you from ever gaining that justification, so explain why the second claim I made is true.
The truth is Jesus and the Holy Spirit confirms the truth. We agree on this. I'm not sure what your motives are by accusing me of not knowing the truth. Faith is my shield the bible is my weapon and Jesus is my leader. If you still choose to not believe I'm a Christian then I'm done trying to convince you. God knows all things and judges those who wrongfull
I have no motives, I simply see no spiritual essence in your posts.
God is spiritual,
we need to also be spiritual, not religious.
or we cannot understand The mystery of Christianity.
I am not judging you, I am just being honest.
You take offence too easily.
madera
This is exactly my point, if all I have to go on is your word then there is no objective evidence to determine if your telling the truth or not. However, if I trust you, I would have no reason to question what you say, so it seems trust is very important when it comes to truth. So tell me, do I have any reason to not trust you?
All the the philosophical zombie proves is that deception and truth are beyond our human capability of detection(we detect physical things), which points to them originating from outside of the physical and not from within the physical.
If you believe a philosophical zombie could exist, then you believe demons could exist.
I have no motives, I simply see no spiritual essence in your posts.
God is spiritual,
we need to also be spiritual, not religious.
or we cannot understand The mystery of Christianity.
I am not judging you, I am just being honest.
You take offence too easily.
madera
If I told you I was a philosophical zombie, would you believe me?
I know I said that I would reject the idea of being a philosophical zombie if I was one, but that is only because of the context. Mainly, a philosophical zombie acts the same as any human, and any human can engage in thought experiments. Therefore, no matter what I say, you cannot determine I am not a philosophical zombie.
Also, trained people can usually pick up on most deception; just not all of it.
Most importantly, trust is an assumption. When you trust me, you assume I will tell the truth. You might have very reasonable grounds for making this assumption, but there is always an element of an assumption. I may be a crafty liar who spent years upon years painting myself as a trustworthy individual, but you, ultimately, assume that this is not the case because it is so far off that it does not really matter to you.
Trust is not an assumption. My 3yr old son trusts me because I have never lied to him. Since I have never lied to him, why would he ever assume I'm telling the truth? Only when someone does lie to him and he finds out the truth, does he begin assuming others might actually be lying to him. He doesn't assume I'm telling the truth because he believes I'm telling the truth, no assumption necessary.
We do not start off assuming things, we start off believing things. Assumptions come later, after we've been lied to.
Have you ever read the Holy Bible?
Are you telling me we've come this far in science just to describe a concept that has already been described in the Bible 2000 years ago? Yet you still choose to not accept the Bible as true? Really?
Revelation 1:8
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was, and who is to come. The Almighty."
That is timeless, defined in a way we could understand.
So has God. And he exists in the present and he exists in the future. He's timeless.
So now you believe something that exists can go out of existence?
You just said "The cosmic egg no longer exists.", doesn't this imply it once existed, but now it does not exist, meaning you believe it is "nonexistent" at the moment? I thought you didn't believe in nonexistence. You're starting to confuse me with your contradictions.
To be honest, I believe as Christians, our motive should be to lift up and encourage those in the body of Christ and spread the gospel of Jesus and make disciples. This is what I feel lead to do.
God bless!
To be honest, I believe as Christians, our motive should be to lift up and encourage those in the body of Christ and spread the gospel of Jesus and make disciples. This is what I feel lead to do.quote
If you love the bible so much, why do you not do what the psalm "be still and know that I am god". tells you to do? It means to meditate In silence
Your mind is so full of scripture it is impossible to be still in order to hear God.
Spread that one.
No further response.
Madera
I believe as Christians, their motive ought to be making God a reality, today, where He is needed the most. That's done, as Jesus kept saying over and over, through Love, Compassion and Helping those in need.To be honest, I believe as Christians, our motive should be to lift up and encourage those in the body of Christ and spread the gospel of Jesus and make disciples. This is what I feel lead to do.
God bless!
Even atheists help people Christians or not.I believe as Christians, their motive out to be making God a reality, today, where He is needed the most. That's done, as Jesus kept saying over and over, through Love, Compassion and Helping those in need.
.
Lets consider consciousness for a sec. There is no objective evidence for my consciousness and it is not falsifiable, yet you believe that it's true that I'm conscious. Why is that?
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