Pentecostal/Charismatic Churches

[All4Christ]

I go to a Pentecostal Assemblies of God church right now.  At college, my first year seminar class required me to go to 10 different denominations for my first ten weeks at college.  During this time, I realized that I disagree with quite a few of the ways my church goes about things.  Our church is becoming a megachurch.  We are expanding from about 2000 seats to 4000.  I am very happy that more people are being saved, and that the Christian Church body (not just the Pentecostals) is growing.  Nevertheless, the way how my church is doing this is by being seeker-friendly.  If someone's church is a seeker-friendly church, don't get me wrong.  I know of some that truly try to give discipleship to their new converts.  My church, however, is watering down the gospel and making it very...moralistic instead of scriptural.  The reverence within the church is not present.  Also, even though it is a Pentecostal Church, if someone spoke in tongues, over half of our congregation wouldn't know what had just happened.  I don't believe that you have to speak in tongues to be saved.  In fact, I myself have not spoken in tongues.  Many Pentecostals focus too much on it, in my opinion.  However, I would like to see more of it in my church.  After that long-winded opening...haha...do any of you know of any other Pentecostal denominations or even Charismatic mainline denominations that would fit what I said I desired?  Maybe I just need to try to support the church I'm in more.  I'm not sure.  I'd be happy for any comment.

 

[Didymus]

it sounds like your church has lost sight of what it is supposed to be. I woould go to the church leaders with my concerns. i have never attended a church that big. 300-400 members tops is the biggest i ve ever been to. Perhapse you should look for a smaller size church of your denomination.

 

[SUNSTONE]

In the book of acts, people were being added daily by the Lord. When the Holy Spirit arrived, thousands and thousands got saved. And they gathered daily to worship God, and to hear His word.

I have never heard of a scripture that says, you can't have a big or small church.

But I do know that the Spirit will lead people, so perhaps you are to goto another church???
Or maybe the problem is just you, and your being bored, or some evil spirit is trying to make you feel that way???

I don't know, but if I were you, I would find out.

 

[aus_koala]

All4Christ,
Interesting post. I go to a Pentecostal church. When I first started going it was in a school hall and had about 200-300 regular attendees. People frequently spoke in tongues in church, along with the interpretations. People prophecied, there were healings, testimonies, etc. These were all signs and wonders that helped people to realise that is present and still performs acts as described in the bible. Over the years my church has grown mainly through the use of small groups meeting in peoples homes during the week with the church services on Sundays being a celebration. The gifts are not displayed as often in the Church services and we know have a regular attendance of around 1000 per week and are lloking to shift into a new bigger building.

My church is of the opinion that the gifts are to be used within the Church but not necessarily in the church services (the dont actually stop them being used in the services and we still regularly see them in effect). The small home groups are where people can be taught scriptures, understand giftings and how to use them properly in developing fellow members of the Church. The home group allows very detailed discussions on scriptures that cannot be done on demand and in 30 minutes from the pulpit on a Sunday.

Maybe your Church has a small group system for developing and displaying the Gifts and that is why you are not seeing it occur in the Church services as much. Do you attend a small group? Does your church have small groups?

 

[Hoonbaba]

Hi,

I just thought I'd jump in and share a bit =)

Today at 11:50 AM All4Christ said this in Post #1

I go to a Pentecostal Assemblies of God church right now.  At college, my first year seminar class required me to go to 10 different denominations for my first ten weeks at college.  During this time, I realized that I disagree with quite a few of the ways my church goes about things.  Our church is becoming a megachurch. 

I've been attending a nondenominational Charismatic church for a while, but I eventually left and joined a presbyterian church.  I'm more for the 'traditional worship'.  Actually I'm more drawn to the way Lutherans, Catholics, Orthodox, and Anglicans/Episcopalians- sacramental worship.  But that's just me.  Anyway, enough about me.

We are expanding from about 2000 seats to 4000.  I am very happy that more people are being saved, and that the Christian Church body (not just the Pentecostals) is growing.  Nevertheless, the way how my church is doing this is by being seeker-friendly.  If someone's church is a seeker-friendly church, don't get me wrong.  I know of some that truly try to give discipleship to their new converts.  My church, however, is watering down the gospel and making it very...moralistic instead of scriptural.  The reverence within the church is not present. 

This kind of thing does happen in many denominations, including some presbyterian denominations like PCUSA.  What troubles me is the fact that this is the kind of thing that seemingly infects the body of Christ, whether we like it or not.  Perhaps it's a good idea to pray for God's spirit to change the hearts of the pastors to preach Christ-centered sermons and such =)

Also, even though it is a Pentecostal Church, if someone spoke in tongues, over half of our congregation wouldn't know what had just happened.  I don't believe that you have to speak in tongues to be saved.  In fact, I myself have not spoken in tongues.  Many Pentecostals focus too much on it, in my opinion. 

This was the same problem I had at my previous church.  They were more 'biblical' than most charismatic churches, but when I first attended, they were almost out of the ballpark altogether.  Now, things've changed significantly and so there's lots of balance in that church.  By the way, I think it's clear from the scriptures that some particular spiritual gifts are the gifts of evangelism, pastoral ministry, or teaching (compare Eph 4:11 with 1 Cor 12:28).  So, while some denominations don't place much emphasis on the prophetic or others gifts like healing and tongues, there are abuses with ungodly teaching, or leading people astray through bad pastoral ministry.  And at the same time, 'charismatics' seem place too much emphasis on the prophetic, tongues, healings, and so one can easily see misuse with these particular gifts.  Ultimately, it seems as if ungodly teaching, or bad pastoral care doesn't seem as big of a deal as charismaniac phenomena.  Personally I think ungodly teaching is a bit more dangerous since it's so subtle.

However, I would like to see more of it in my church.  After that long-winded opening...haha...do any of you know of any other Pentecostal denominations or even Charismatic mainline denominations that would fit what I said I desired?  Maybe I just need to try to support the church I'm in more.  I'm not sure.  I'd be happy for any comment.

I also would love to see all the gifts of the Spirit embraced by every denomination

What I noticed though, is that some denominations which are very conservative in nature are VERY open to the gifts of the Spirit.  I don't know if I can think of a denomination that fits what you want since every denomination has their own doctrinal beliefs.  Personally, I'm very Catholic-friendly.  I have a few Charismatic Catholic friends.  And I think the Charismatic Catholics are VERY orderly in how they go about the gifts and such (of course there are always exceptions, since there's always problems in every church).  Again, I have a particular reverence towards the churches that are sacramental.  I know there's also Charismatic Anglicans, Lutherans, and Orthodox But I get the feeling, these won't suit you =P

Currently though, I attend a presbyterian church that's very open to the gifts

Hope this helps =)

-Jason

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 11:50 AM All4Christ said this in Post #1

I go to a Pentecostal Assemblies of God church right now.  At college, my first year seminar class required me to go to 10 different denominations for my first ten weeks at college.  During this time, I realized that I disagree with quite a few of the ways my church goes about things.  Our church is becoming a megachurch.  We are expanding from about 2000 seats to 4000.  I am very happy that more people are being saved, and that the Christian Church body (not just the Pentecostals) is growing.  Nevertheless, the way how my church is doing this is by being seeker-friendly.  If someone's church is a seeker-friendly church, don't get me wrong.  I know of some that truly try to give discipleship to their new converts.  My church, however, is watering down the gospel and making it very...moralistic instead of scriptural.  The reverence within the church is not present.  Also, even though it is a Pentecostal Church, if someone spoke in tongues, over half of our congregation wouldn't know what had just happened.  I don't believe that you have to speak in tongues to be saved.  In fact, I myself have not spoken in tongues.  Many Pentecostals focus too much on it, in my opinion.  However, I would like to see more of it in my church.  After that long-winded opening...haha...do any of you know of any other Pentecostal denominations or even Charismatic mainline denominations that would fit what I said I desired?  Maybe I just need to try to support the church I'm in more.  I'm not sure.  I'd be happy for any comment.

All4Christ,

As I mentioned in my PM to you I grew up in the Assembly's of God.  I remember as a teenager the gifts operated pretty regularly, however, there was little to none in the training of it.

Then when I left home and started to attend another AG that church, mostly the Pastor, operated in the gifts.  The Pastor was very good though in incouraging others to operate in it too, although there was no training. 

Up to that point, of my age anyway, the Penticostal view seemed to be that one does not operate in a gift (tongues, interpretation, etc.) unless the Holy Spirit suddenly comes upon you, that you have no control, and frequently was done in screaming.   

From that church, when the Lord told me it was time to move on, He led me into the Vineyard.  The worship there was awesome and the gifts seemed to flow more freely and gently than I had been use to. 

When I moved to Florida 11 years ago, the nearest Vineyard was too far to drive so, since it was familier, I went back into the AG.  It was completely different from what I had remembered.  Since I had moved from California, I thought maybe it was a cultural difference.  While it was Penticostal, there was very little operation of the gifts.

Then, along with a new Pastor (Taylor), came revivel and the gifts began to flow pretty freely.  Again, mostly via the Pastor, but others were incouraged to flow to, although most did not.

When that Pastor left and the new Pastor came in, there was a sudden shift, much the same as what you've noticed in your church.  He was very "numbers" oriented and they began to change things so that those coming in would feel (I want to say cushy) comfortable. 

I am now attending a non-denom (recommended by Pastor Taylor), that is mmmmm let's say, a wee bit wild (to put it mildly) and I love it.

The gifts flow freely.  They even train in how to operate in the gifts.  I've known since the second AG I attended that the Lord used me in messages in tongues, but have come to where I not only can give a message in tongues, but I can interpret as well. 

The Lord also uses me in giving prophetic words, which unlike the OT term of prophesy, is mostly words of incouragement, exortation and direction for people.  And what I love most is that we all are being trained in this area.  It's not just for certain people, although certain people operate in it the most.

I guess the most important thing to do is seek God for what He would have you to do.  It sounds like there is a desire to grow and mature in an area that your current church is not longer helping you grow in.  It sounds like God is beginning to move you out.

However, there is a correct way and a bad way to leave a church.  The bad way is just to dissappear.  Another bad way, is to make an issue of everything you dissagree with and stomp away.

The right way is to seek God as to if He wants you to leave and if He does then to show you where He want's you to go.  It is never advisable to leave a church because of hurt, unhappiness, dissagreement, etc. 

Then after attending there, preferrably around your current church's schedule, you can approach your current Pastor with enough of the details to give him/her enough to know that you are making a good move. 

Seek their blessing in your going.   They have put a lot of their energy and time into you and they do deserve to be told.  It's the right thing to do.  And it will make a difference in the way God uses you in the next church. 

Know that God has the perfect place for you.  He desires to use you just as much as you desire to be used.  Pray, He will lead you.

Be blessed,
Quaffer

 

 

[Andrew]

Personally, I 'd say find a church that preaches the entire gospel -- that Jesus saves, heals, prospers and protects, BUT with the focus and emphasis on Christ and his finished work.

However, tht said, you must also rem that every church and its Pastor has its own unique calling and hence focus. eg some churches may focus more on the gifts some on missionaries etc. (God has his purposes and reasons) so dont be too quick to judge.

In the end, find a church you are comfortable in, can grow and submit and serve. No point remaining there and playing church policeman and being bitter. Be led by the Spirit. Move if the Spirit leads you to another church.

size of church? doesnt matter but I believe it must always grow. if a church doesnt grow after all these years something aint right. If the church becomes to big, then join small grps. that's what i did. my church is abt 7000+ and still growing fast. so i joined a small grp and 2 ministries to get closer to the ppl.

 

[Lotar]

I don't think the size of the church matters either. My church has close to 20,000 members, but the bible is always the focus of our sermons. We also have many different bible studies. I have also been to smaller churches that were that way, Applegate in Oregon, is a great church. I have been to both small and large churches where entire sermons would be given, with maybe one verse mentioned, and sometimes none.
Either way, find a church grounded in the bible, who cares about size
Sorry, can't help you on the speaking in tongues thing. Acually, could someone explain what you actually mean by this? I've never been to a Pentacostal church.

 

[aus_koala]

Lotar,
The gift of tongues is the special ability that God gives to certain members of the body of Christ to a) speak to God in a language they have never learned and/or b) receive and communicate an immediate message of God to his people through a divinely-anointed utterance in a language they have never learned.

Read the following scriptures for more information:
1 Corinthians 12:10,28
1 Corinthians 14:13-19
Acts 2:1-13
Acts 10:44-46
Acts 19:1-7
Mark 16:17

 

[Alabare]

12th March 2003 at 10:48 PM Quaffer said this in Post #6





Then, along with a new Pastor (Taylor), came revivel and the gifts began to flow pretty freely.  Again, mostly via the Pastor, but others were incouraged to flow to, although most did not.

When that Pastor left and the new Pastor came in, there was a sudden shift, much the same as what you've noticed in your church.  He was very "numbers" oriented and they began to change things so that those coming in would feel (I want to say cushy) comfortable. 


 

Could you have followed Brother Taylor? Where did he go?

 

[Xnot A citizenX]

Reasearch...visit...look around...Find a church even if it isn't Penecostal that best fits what you want...Whether it be Baptist Methodist...Penecostal..or even non-denominational...fine whatever makes you comfortable....a place where you are lead to by God..and a place that you can worship as you want..

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 12:17 AM Alabare said this in Post #10


Could you have followed Brother Taylor? Where did he go?

I'm not sure what you are asking here Alabare.  The Pastor I'm referring to is Barry Taylor and he is still Pastoring here in Florida.  Initially, he left because God had led he and his wife to be travelling evangelists.  They still do that but also oversee 2 churches in Central Florida.  They are about 2 hours south of where I live and I'm also quite involved in the church they referred me to after they left.

The only reason they referred me is because while talking with them one day I told them that I just could not go back to "church as usual" but I did not know even where to start to find another church.  So, they referred me to the one I'm going to now, Freedom Tabernacle. 

Freedom Tabernacle had School of The Spirit classes every Friday night and I attended those classes.  Also,  the AG services lasted about an hour or so and FT's services lasted for about 3 hours.  So after the one service I would go on over to the other.  I did this for about 3 months before I decided that it was where God wanted me.  I went to the Pastor of the AG and let him know and I've been a FT ever since.   That was about 6 years ago.




 

 

[Alabare]

coolness. you had talked about pastor Taylor leaving and I was just wondering if he had started a new church in the area that you could follow him to. My pastor loves being in a smaller church. when we get our church to grow larger he will probaly turn it over to one of us and start another one. He wants the church to grow because each number means a soul saved, but he loves small churches so he knows everyone and be personnally involved in each of our lives. I am glad to hear you love your new (6 year) church.

 

[SnuP]

The church that I attend focases mostly upon teaching and equiping. We are basically a minister training church. We started out as just Holy Ghost meeting in the home of the person who is now the bishop of the church. And now our influence extends to many areas of the globe, with headquaters in three other countries and crusades in atleast twenty.

As I said, we teach people how to minister, but by using the leading of the Holy Spirit and the operation of the gifts just as the apostles did. We teach people how to watch for and follow the moves of Christ and listen to the prompting of the Holy Spirit. With a inphasis on healing of all leaves and the complete freeing of the spirit.

I don't know if this helps you with your descision but I hope that by knowing what is out there you can make a more informed desicion.

 

[kiwi believer]

As a Pentecostal - the gift of tongues along with other gifts of the Holy Spirit are given to you when you ask The Lord to Baptise you in the Holy Spirit - if you have not already given your life to Christ and asked Him to be your Saviour you need to do this first - be Born Again. Some people are baptised in the Holy Spirit when being prayed for, others find it happens to them just out of the blue - both wonderful, exciting and come with the Love of God.........Praise His Holy Name.................

 

[SeekerofJesus]

After the things i've seen, heard, felt, and witnessed in my church (Pentecostal), I can't think of ever going to another Church.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Today at 06:22 PM SeekerofJesus said this in Post #16

After the things i've seen, heard, felt, and witnessed in my church (Pentecostal), I can't think of ever going to another Church.

I certaintly understand that.  After being at my church which is so full of life I can't emagine ever going back to "church as usual".  Church is never routine.  God moves in a different way each service . . . and I love it.  Of course, some things are planned but never set in stone. 

 

[Job_38]

The problem with many of these things are that they try for a God and type of relationship. They want God, but they also want all of the other things. Thats not it at all.


Edited to language content.

 

[Grace_Alone4gives]

Whew, wow - alot said...and well. Hope you do not mind me adding my 2 cents (ok....maybe 5 cents)

I attend a Reformed (yet be it charasmatic in a sence) church....but I have attended a Four Square (pentacostal) church.

I think we must be carful in the following when looking for a church;

1. We are not looking for a 'Feeling' or an 'experience' when seeking a church family. I say this as my experience has led me to hear things such as "The Spirit was not moving today" which is impossible as the Sprit is always moving. Some churches focus on the gifts more than others or are more pentacostal in doctrin - however, we should never seek for 'tingly fingers and toes' when we look for a church. Find one that is comfortable for you, has strong doctrin stands on the word of God first and foremost - then seek out your preferences.

2. We are not following a person or group of people, but God. I say this as I fiond that many a time in churches (and in mine also) people leave, or change churched to follow a specific preacher. Now - there is nothing wrong with this in many ways - but we have to be careful we are 'following' for Godly reasons and not just because this person "Has the Spirit of God!"....hopefully, all us born again believers have the Spirit...KWIM?

3. Look for somewhere where we feel we can build lifetime relationships - be part of the family and not just a number. This is just a personal thing for me and may differ from others. I love having a close knit family of believers that I can get to know - where cliques are rare, and the sense of family is strong. I like forst name basis and such...but like I said - this is just my personal preferance....the bottom line is to make yourself a member of a church that will be yours...and one that wont make you want to look for another in a year or two....(hope I am making sence)

I know this does not really answer your original question. But thought I could offer some feedback....GBU all!!!

HTD