Pelagain Captivity

[Knight]

Check out this article by RC Sproul:

http://www.bible-researcher.com/sproul1.html

Very enlightening to the state of the church today.

Comments?

 

[BBAS 64]

Check out this article by RC Sproul:

http://www.bible-researcher.com/sproul1.html

Very enlightening to the state of the church today.

Comments?

Good Day, Knight

Hope you have been wellas it has been a while. I have read that article may times and find it quite enlightening.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[JJB]

Good Day, Knight

ROTFL!

Anyway, thanks for posting that article, Knight.

A couple of things came to mind for me as I read Mr. Sproul's article:

Billy Graham's statement is very common among believers these days. In fact, I have heard it so much that I began to forget/lose/drop my own reformed beliefs. I am thankful to have run into UMP over in GA, as well as the few other reformed brethren who frequent there. It turned me back to reexamine the contrasts between the two systems.

Often I hear how we "calvinists are so puffed up with pride because we are 'chosen'". Granted, many calvinists are full of pride because we take great pains to be learned and well-read -- don't go getting huffy, I said "many" not "all". I cannot say the previous sentence applies to anyone here as I have not seen that behaviour here. But it has been my experience that to be chosen is very humbling. I don't know why God would choose me over someone else. It brings me to tears to even write this now, as I think about my family members who do not profess faith. I still maintain my hope for them.

 

[UMP]

Check out this article by RC Sproul:

http://www.bible-researcher.com/sproul1.html

Very enlightening to the state of the church today.

Comments?

Yes,
I agree 100%. Nice article.
I think the part I have trouble with is when we talk about loved ones.
It's easier to say, yes, I am a sinner, yes, God is Sovereign in 100% of my salvation and I believe that. It's quite another thing to see a son, a daughter a mother a father living in sin, living in darkness and submit to God Sovereignly saving THEM when you see no signs of it happening.
Nevertheless, God is Sovereign and perfectly so, even if I can't understand everything He is doing and why.
We must trust, as Job trusted :

Job 13:
[15] Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.

ALL Glory to God !!

 

[Foundthelight]

I am forwarding the article to several friends. Thank you!

 

[Rolf Ernst]

R.C. Sproul is a very good theologian. I disagree with him only on his apologetics, and am not well enough acquainted with his form of preterism to know whether I agree on that point or not; but it is certain that if a person had all his knowledge and believed all Sproul did, he would be one of the most highly respected theologians today.

 

[Knight]

R.C. Sproul is a very good theologian. I disagree with him only on his apologetics, and am not well enough acquainted with his form of preterism to know whether I agree on that point or not; but it is certain that if a person had all his knowledge and believed all Sproul did, he would be one of the most highly respected theologians today.

He's still around you know....

Your post made it sound as if Sproul were dead.

 

[Imblessed]

I wrote this great response up and then got distracted and it somehow got erased when I came back to the computer.....bummer.....

So, it looks like my pastor must have read this (awesome) article too, because part of his series on Grace this spring was titled "pelegian captivity of the church" and discussed the very issues written by Sproul in this article---and here I thought I just had a brilliant pastor! LOL Looks like he knows where to find good stuff though, which is just as important!

The more I hang out with you guys and learn about the Doctrines of Grace and the different theological views, the more I realize how lucky I am to go week after week and listen to a pastor who reads, understands and adheres to the beliefs expounded on by the likes of A.W. Pink, Spurgeon, Calvin, Luther, Sproul and others. What's more, when he quotes those men in his services, I know the names, and know that I'm hearing sound theology. That's not to say he quotes them all the time, he actually rarely quotes other theologans in his services, preferring to stick to the bible as closely as possible, but when he does go "outside" the bible, he's quoting those great men. Or if he refers to a book beside the bible, it's usually a book by one of them..... I feel very blessed to have a church and pastor like that!

Back on Topic: that article is a wonderful read, and I have a soft spot for R.C. Sproul, seeing as how he's the first "calvinistic" author I've read. I wish I had more time to read, and the money to go get all the books I want to get(do you know how HARD it is to find these books at the library????) Thank God for the internet, where I can get Spurgeon's sermons anytime I want, or read stuff like this article from Sproul!

My dad is a huge Billy Graham fan, but the fact of the matter is that Mr. Graham has become VERY liberal and accepting in his older age. I'm not sure if he always was like this or not, but even the Catholics love Billy Graham now. I'm not saying that that's "bad", but it's odd that Protestantism and Catholicism has become so "hand in hand." Luther would be amazed, I'm sure....

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

I wrote this great response up and then got distracted and it somehow got erased when I came back to the computer.....bummer.....

That happened to me, too. Also, it always seems as if someone comes along and says something similar to what I wanted to say, but with much greater detail and acumen.

The more I hang out with you guys and learn about the Doctrines of Grace and the different theological views, the more I realize how lucky I am to go week after week and listen to a pastor who reads, understands and adheres to the beliefs expounded on by the likes of A.W. Pink, Spurgeon, Calvin, Luther, Sproul and others. What's more, when he quotes those men in his services, I know the names, and know that I'm hearing sound theology. That's not to say he quotes them all the time, he actually rarely quotes other theologans in his services, preferring to stick to the bible as closely as possible, but when he does go "outside" the bible, he's quoting those great men. Or if he refers to a book beside the bible, it's usually a book by one of them..... I feel very blessed to have a church and pastor like that!

I wish I was as fortunate. My pastor is more likely to quote Billy Graham or Rick Warren. But he mostly sticks to scripture, and has been doing a wonderful series of sermons on the book of Romans which made me wonder if he isn't a closet Calvinist.

I wish I had more time to read, and the money to go get all the books I want to get(do you know how HARD it is to find these books at the library????)

My library has almost no Reformed writings, but plenty of occult-Christian and liberal Christian writings. Seems folks around here are more interested in finding out how much Christ is like the Buddha and how to perform "Christian" magic than finding out what the Bible has to say about, say, justification.

I was thoroughly impressed with the R.C. Sproul books I found at the library,though. By the way, I printed out this article for my mother a while ago. It's good stuff, and an excellent way to get dialogue going between us.

 

[Imblessed]

That happened to me, too. Also, it always seems as if someone comes along and says something similar to what I wanted to say, but with much greater detail and acumen.

yea, that sucks doesn't it?

I wish I was as fortunate. My pastor is more likely to quote Billy Graham or Rick Warren. But he mostly sticks to scripture, and has been doing a wonderful series of sermons on the book of Romans which made me wonder if he isn't a closet Calvinist.

well, seeing as how our church is based Warren's idea for churches(we are a "purpose driven church")I'm kind of suprised that he doesn't quote Warren more...but I'm certainly glad for it. Our church is such an odd combination of Calvinist and "seeker-driven" and purpose driven church, it's kind of disconcerting sometimes....

My library has almost no Reformed writings, but plenty of occult-Christian and liberal Christian writings. Seems folks around here are more interested in finding out how much Christ is like the Buddha and how to perform "Christian" magic than finding out what the Bible has to say about, say, justification.

I'm with ya there brother! It's pretty scary!

I was thoroughly impressed with the R.C. Sproul books I found at the library,though. By the way, I printed out this article for my mother a while ago. It's good stuff, and an excellent way to get dialogue going between us.

our printer is currently out of ink right now, which is a bummer because there are lots and lots of things I'd like to print out to keep--but my hubby is mad at epson right now because they put some computer chip in the ink so you can't refill it with generic ink, you have to buy theirs. And it's expensive. So he's "protesting" by not going out and buying new ink for our printer. We just bought it in February, and he'd like to take it back but I don't think we can take it back just because we don't like their refill ink policy! LOL It's got him hoppin mad though . In the meantime though, I can't print anything . Hopefully he'll break down and get ink soon. (hmmm we are going to Sam's club tonight, maybe if I'm reallllll sweet to him, I can talk him into getting it....... LOLOL)

 

[Rolf Ernst]

Knight--Yes, thank God, Sproul is still with us. I listen to him on KXIL in the Austin/georgetown area at 9:30 PM monday-friday . My past tense was in reference to the level of someone's learning, but I admit it was not well stated.

 

[UMP]

Knight--Yes, thank God, Sproul is still with us. I listen to him on KXIL in the Austin/georgetown area at 9:30 PM monday-friday . My past tense was in reference to the level of someone's learning, but I admit it was not well stated.

Try this guy too. He might be on a radio station in your area.
Very "solid"
http://www.christianity.com/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID314766|CHID599454|CIID1561106,00.html

 

[Knight]

Isn't it interesting how persuasive bad theology can be sometimes.....

Pelagius hit upon a very popular idea when he espoused the idea of humans possessing this core of goodness. After all, who wants to think of people as totally depraved.

Of course, the understanding of total depravity and original sin is absolutely essential to a Godly, vertical understanding of the purpose behind everything.

We also, by nature, want to save ourselves. We don't want to trust someone else. We want to do it, as Frank Sinatra said, "My Way."

My rule of thumb: If a theology appeals only to basic human nature. It can't be good.

 

[JJB]

Knight, I like your phrase of "vertical understanding". I think we do need to understand things, the best we can in our limited abilities, the way God sees things. Not the way we want to see things.

I hate that song by Frank Sinatra -- it grates every time I hear it. We cannot save ourselves no matter how much we'd prefer to. All glory belongs to God.