Peanut Gallery: The Immaculate conception of Mary!

bbbbbbb · Sep 8, 2008

katholikos said:
Wow. You really goofed that up didn't you. Actually, it is a lay lector that says "The Word of the Lord", after he/she reads two of the scripture readings, and they do not lift up the book.

The priest only reads a Gospel reading, after which he says "This is the Gospel of the Lord", and he holds up a book that only contains the four Gospels.

But, at any rate: The Bible is the Word of God insofar as it is put to writing, so the priest is correct. But, the Bible is not the COMPLETE TOTAL Word of God: Christ is THE WORD which God spoke to the world.

Actually, not entirely. Back in the Dark Ages when the laity were utterly forbidden any participation in the mass, except as an audience, the priest did exactly as I described. I know because I attended a mass at that time. However, as we all know, for various reasons changes have been made to the mass, including the active participation of the laity.

This still begs the questions that if Christ = the Word of God = the consecrated Host, why doesn't the priest hold up the consecrated Host and proclaim, "This is the Word of the Lord. This is the Word of the Lord. This is the Word of the Lord." Or he could vary it some and say things like "This is the Lamb of God.", "This is the door.", "This is the true vine.", or "This is the Way."

Brennin · Sep 8, 2008

bbbbbbb said:
Actually, not entirely. Back in the Dark Ages when the laity were utterly forbidden any participation in the mass, except as an audience, the priest did exactly as I described. I know because I attended a mass at that time. However, as we all know, for various reasons changes have been made to the mass, including the active participation of the laity.

LOL! You mean to tell me that things were different before Vatican II? Surely, you jest!

lionroar0 · Sep 8, 2008

bbbbbbb said:
Actually, not entirely. Back in the Dark Ages when the laity were utterly forbidden any participation in the mass, except as an audience, the priest did exactly as I described. I know because I attended a mass at that time. However, as we all know, for various reasons changes have been made to the mass, including the active participation of the laity.

The laity have always been active in the mass. The changes have increased the pariticipation of the laity in the mass.

This still begs the questions that if Christ = the Word of God = the consecrated Host, why doesn't the priest hold up the consecrated Host and proclaim, "This is the Word of the Lord. This is the Word of the Lord. This is the Word of the Lord." Or he could vary it some and say things like "This is the Lamb of God.", "This is the door.", "This is the true vine.", or "This is the Way."

Because the Liturgy uses concise and consistant language that reflects heavenly worship.

Maybe you should go attend a few more Liturgies.

Peace

lionroar0 · Sep 8, 2008

Brennin said:
LOL! You mean to tell me that things were different before Vatican II? Surely, you jest!

And things where different in non-catholic churchers.

Do you really have a point??

Peace

katholikos · Sep 8, 2008

Okay, back to basics.

Christ established an infallible teaching Church.

That Church infallibly teaches the Immaculate Conception.

End of discussion.

Next?

Brennin · Sep 8, 2008

katholikos said:
Okay, back to basics.

Christ established an infallible teaching Church.

There is your error.

BreadAlone · Sep 8, 2008

Christ established an infallible teaching Church.

I'd still like to see you answer the following:

BreadAlone said:
Christ gave what authority to men? To continue in the teachings that he gave.

Kind of like your holy vicars constantly disagree with the next one that your denomination produces. Kind of like how St. Peter believed in the 6 day creation, in the very same book you speak of here, and yet the current pope believes the Earth is billions of years old.

Or maybe like how St. Peter said that we can only be saved by the name of one, Jesus Christ, and the last pope said that all who "earnestly seek god" could get to heaven.

Yes, there are GREAT dangers of "personal interpretation."

Yes, let's not forget that it's IN SCRIPTURE.

Worse could be said.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 8, 2008

katholikos said:
Okay, back to basics.

Christ established an infallible teaching Church.

That Church infallibly teaches the Immaculate Conception.

End of discussion.

Next?

Not my Church
But then we do a lot of studying on the Greek and Hebrew just to keep others honest with translations

Revelation 12:1 And Sign, great was seen in the heaven a Woman having been about-cast/peri-beblhmenh <4016> (5772) the sun and the moon underneath of the feet of her

Reve 17:4 And the Woman was having been about-cast/peri-beblhmenh <4016> (5772) purple and scarlet and having been gilded to gold and stone, precious, and pearls, having drinkcup, golden, in the hand of her being replete/brimming of abominations and the uncleannesses of the prostitution of her

katholikos · Sep 8, 2008

LittleLambofJesus said:
Not my Church...

I'm talking about the Church Christ established.

I don't know what church you go to.

katholikos · Sep 8, 2008

Brennin said:
There is your error.

No, its Christ's work. Rejecting is your error.

katholikos · Sep 8, 2008

BreadAlone said:
I'd still like to see you answer the following:

There's nothing to answer. You post was an illogical response to my post, not to mention a gross misrepresentation. I only speak to facts. Challenge me with facts, and I'll respond.

BreadAlone · Sep 8, 2008

katholikos said:
There's nothing to answer. You post was an illogical response to my post, not to mention a gross misrepresentation. I only speak to facts. Challenge me with facts, and I'll respond.

Current Pope accepts Theistic Evolution (admittedly NOT EVEN CLOSE as bad as JPII): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1548519/Pope-stirs-up-evolution-debate.html

Many people do not have an opportunity to come to know or accept the Gospel revelation or to enter the Church.... For such people, salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally a part of the Church but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit. It enables each person to attain salvation through his or her free cooperation.
Pope John Paul II, 1990 Redemptoris Missio

===========

So we have the facts..what are you NOT responding to..??

katholikos · Sep 8, 2008

BreadAlone said:
Current Pope accepts Theistic Evolution (admittedly NOT EVEN CLOSE as bad as JPII)...

Okay, lets go with that one.

This is simple: The Church has never dogmatically defined what the "days" in Genesis 1 mean. Are they days? Are they millions of years? We don't know, and a faithful Catholic can go either way and still be within the confines of orthodoxy. The Church HAS defined that God created everything out of nothing, and that is Dogma. But other than that? Young earthers and old earthers are welcome: neither are heretics.

The Immaculate Conception IS defined and IS dogma. Therein lies the difference.

Next?

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 8, 2008

But other than that? Young earthers and old earthers are welcome: neither are heretics.

That is nice to know. There also appears to be disagreement concerning the Flood literally covering the whole Global world or not.
But Jesus mentions the flood so we know it must be True

Matthew 24:38 For as they were in the days, those, to-the before the flood eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until which day entered Noah into the Ark,
39 And not they know until came the deludge and lifts/takes-up All. Thus shall be also the parousia <3952> of the Son of the Man.

Reve 15:8 And is being-filled-full/repleted the Sanctuary of Smoke out of the Glory of the God, and out of the power of Him. And no one was able to be entering into the Sanctuary until should be being finished the seven blows/stripes of the seven messengers.

katholikos · Sep 9, 2008

LittleLambofJesus said:
That is nice to know. There also appears to be disagreement concerning the Flood literally covering the whole Global world or not.
But Jesus mentions the flood so we know it must be True ...

But does He specifically say it cover every square inch of earth?

MamaZ · Sep 9, 2008

katholikos said:
Okay, back to basics.

Christ established an infallible teaching Church.

That Church infallibly teaches the Immaculate Conception.

End of discussion.

Next?

Show me where it is ever said that Christ established an infallible teaching church.

katholikos · Sep 9, 2008

MamaZ said:
Show me where it is ever said that Christ established an infallible teaching church.

Why? If I show you, you will just reject the plain meaning of the scriptures like you always do. Why should I bother?

I have come to learn that "please show me..." usually means "please give me a chance to argue with you." Thanks but no thanks.

MamaZ · Sep 9, 2008

Well Probably the scripture that says and the gates of hell will not prevail would be the one used. Which by the way is not a promise that error would not come in to the church for we see where Paul is always admonishing us to stand firm in the Faith.

Uphill Battle · Sep 9, 2008

katholikos said:
Why? If I show you, you will just reject the plain meaning of the scriptures like you always do. Why should I bother?

I have come to learn that "please show me..." usually means "please give me a chance to argue with you." Thanks but no thanks.

Brennin · Sep 9, 2008

katholikos said:
No, its Christ's work. Rejecting is your error.

Your church is not consonant with scripture or the writings of early ecclesiastics. The idea that Peter was the first pope is a house-of-straw that collapses upon first inspection.

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