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Peanut Gallery - Formal Debate - New World Order

MarkRohfrietsch

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Topic: The Jesuits (Society of Jesus) and the Vatican are gaining control of much of the world and are responsible for a large portion of the carnage, war and violence in the world through much of history since the time of the fall of Rome in the west and even until today.

Formal Debate thread can be found here: http://www.christianforums.com/t7826590/#post65773634
 

LittleLambofJesus

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First post is up: #2

There are witnesses who claim to have left the catholics and they say that the jesuits are the true powerful arm of the catholic church now and the white pope is just a puppet while the black pope, the general of the jesuits is truly in command.
The catholics historically have influenced nations by dividing entire continents and giving the land to the control of a single king on condition that they enslave the people spiritually under the control of the pope.
How many Jesuit popes have there been other than the present one?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7731036/#post62761291


Francis Xavier did not found the Jesuits although he was an early member of the the Society of Jesus (name for Jesuits) and also a missionary and was from Spain.
The founder of the Jesuit order was Ignatius of Loyola. You can find more on that here...Ignatius of Loyola - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The official name for the new pope is simply Francis according to the Vatican. There is not a Francis 1 until there is an Francis 2.

Pope Francis chose the name Francis because of the life and example of Francis of Assisi who started the Franciscan order. Francis of Assisi was never a Jesuit although the Pope himself is a Jesuit. At first I also wondered if, since he was Jesuit, he chose a Jesuit's name........
.
 
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Rhamiel

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Black Pope is the nickname for the leader of the Jesuits, because that is a very powerful position and Jesuits wear black while the Pope wears white

I think the term is kind of tacky, but a nickname does not really prove anything

there is no proof that shows that the Jesuits are "really in command" and plenty of proof to show that the Pope is in charge
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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I love when people provide no references, no hard facts, no numbers... what a joke of a debate thread.
Black Pope is the nickname for the leader of the Jesuits, because that is a very powerful position and Jesuits wear black while the Pope wears white

I think the term is kind of tacky, but a nickname does not really prove anything

there is no proof that shows that the Jesuits are "really in command" and plenty of proof to show that the Pope is in charge
Who knows what goes on behind the closed doors of the Jesuits.....


Will Smith - Men In Black (HQ) - YouTube
 
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Rick Otto

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Who knows what goes on behind the closed doors of the Jesuits.....

Is Heritage History a controversial source?
Heritage History | Homeschool History Curriculum | Junipero Serra by A. H. Fitch
"In the middle of the eighteenth century the famous Society of Jesus comprised about twenty thousand members. They could be found in all parts of the world. There was not a country, no matter how remote, or difficult of access, where the silent-footed Jesuit was not busily at work. The society possessed immense wealth; it controlled to a large extent the education of youths in many countries; among its members were the confessors of kings and princes; it exerted a powerful political influence in the civil administration of Catholic countries. The Jesuits were, in fact, at the height of their power and their fame when their downfall was decreed. The causes that brought this about were many and varied, but among them may be mentioned the accusation that the Jesuits converted their missionary stations into commercial centers and conducted bold speculations, more lucrative to their order than to their country. They were also accused of avoiding the payment of tithes by false representations of the conditions of their missions—a fact which the Franciscan friars first brought to the attention of Spanish royalty. The storm was long in brewing.
[Most of America's NWO politicians come from Jesuit or at least, RC universities.- Otto]
In France Madame de Pompadour assisted materially to expedite their downfall. She was their bitter enemy, a fact which, it has been observed, was perhaps more creditable to them than otherwise. Her hatred of them was no doubt due to the firmness with which the Jesuit confessor of Louis XV. refused the king absolution unless the Pompadour were dismissed from court. Nor did the society find so stanch an ally in Marie Therese as it might well have expected, for she had been educated by Jesuits and was one of their ardent admirers. Yet we find the Austrian empress writing to the youthful Marie Antoinette, her daughter, this cautious advice:

There is one thing more I would mention and this concerns the Jesuits. Do not engage in conversation either for or against them. You may quote me as saying that I did not wish you to speak of them either favorably or unfavorably; that you know and esteem them, that they have done much good in my countries that I should be sorry to lose them but if the court of Rome thinks it right to abolish this order I should make no objection. [Correspondence Secrete entre Marie Therese et le Cte De Mercy-Argenteau. Vol. I, pp. 5-6.]
As a matter of fact, the sagacity of the queen could not but recognize the menace to the states in the Jesuits' thirst for power, and in the manifold strifes and disturbances of which they were the cause.

But strangely enough, it was in the Spanish Peninsula, where their dominion seemed too firmly established ever to be uprooted, that the most powerful blow was dealt the order. Carlos III. of Spain issued a mandate for the expulsion from his dominions in Europe, Asia, and America, of all the members of the Society of Jesus. It was further decreed that any Jesuit who should, without the king's express leave, return to Spanish dominions under any pretext whatever, even that of having resigned from the society and being absolved from the vows, would be treated as a proscript, incurring, if a layman, the penalty of death, and, if a priest, that of confinement at the option of the ordinaries.

It was in the summer of 1767 that the Jesuits in New Spain learned of the calamity that had overtaken their order. They numbered in the provinces 678 members, of whom over half were natives of America, who had never been beyond the confines of their country. To be suddenly driven into exile, and without adequate means of support, to be deserted in this extremity by the Pope himself, who, fearing the burden of maintaining so many poverty stricken priests, forbade them to seek shelter in his dominions, was, indeed, a bitter hardship.

The carrying out of the king's mandate in the provinces of New Spain fell to the lot of the Marquis de Croix, who had been appointed viceroy the previous year. He was reputed an upright, able man, with a pronounced liking for the delicacies of the table and good wine, of which latter there was a remarkably fine supply in the viceregal cellar. That he was bold and swift of resource in emergencies, the following anecdote related of him, while he was still in Spain, will show. He had incurred the disapproval of the Inquisition and was summoned suddenly to appear before that dreaded tribunal. He obeyed the summons, but, as he was holding command at the time, he took the precaution of bringing with him a squad of soldiers and fourteen cannon. He stationed his men around the inquisitorial building, and gave orders that if more than fifteen minutes elapsed from the time he entered the building until he reappeared again, they were to fire upon and demolish the entire structure. The Inquisitors evidently deemed it prudent not to detain the doughty soldier. He was dismissed "con muchas zalemas y carabanas."

It may be that he was not averse to complying to the letter with his royal master's commands in regard to the expulsion of the Jesuits from New Spain, for he appears to have done so in a most thorough manner. He invited the audencia to come to the palace for the purpose of conferring on confidential state matters of importance. It was an evening late in June when the meeting took place. The scene was not without a touch of the dramatic. Facing the audencia, De Croix produced a sealed package. He opened it; within was a second package, also sealed. Upon this was written, "Under penalty of death you will not open this despatch till the 24th of June at nightfall." Within the package was the royal order for the expulsion of the Jesuits from the provinces, together with minute instructions concerning the methods to be employed in their arrest, even naming the men to whom this task should be given. A third envelope contained the following:

I invest you with my whole authority and royal power that you shall forthwith repair with an armed force to the houses of the Jesuits. You will seize the persons of all of them and despatch them within twenty-four hours as prisoners to the port of Vera Cruz, where they will be embarked on vessels provided for that purpose. At the very moment of such arrest you will cause to be sealed the records of said houses and the papers of such persons, without allowing them to remove anything but their prayer books and such garments as are absolutely necessary for the journey. If after the embarkation there should be found in that district a single Jesuit even if ill or dying you shall suffer the penalty of death. Yo el Rey. [Bancroft, History of Mexico, Vol. III. p. 439]

If the viceroy required an incentive to do his work thoroughly, he undoubtedly received it in the last clause of this royal mandate. De Croix decided to act at daybreak the following morning. Rumors of what was to occur reached the populace. Great indignation was everywhere expressed. The masses were disposed actively to assist the padres in fighting arrest. Whatever may have been the reputation of the Jesuits in Europe, or the dislike and distrust entertained for them there, in New Spain they appeared to have possessed the sympathy of the people. But the viceroy was prepared to meet any outbreak on the part of the populace. He stationed soldiers at street corners where the arrests had been made. The Jesuits were kept imprisoned in their houses until preparations were completed for their deportation. The people were told to disperse quietly and "that they were born to obey and hold their peace," a piece of information that had the effect of exasperating them to the extent of secretly planning a revolt against Spain, but its premature disclosure caused the revolt to be crushed before it was fully ripe.

June 28, the Jesuits were placed in coaches and with a strong guard to accompany them sent to Vera Cruz. The people flocked, weeping, around their carriages to say farewell. In some of the towns through which they passed their entry resembled a triumphant procession. The crowds that gathered to do them honor were so dense that the soldiers were frequently obliged to use the butt end of their muskets to force an opening for the coaches. When they finally arrived in Vera Cruz they had to wait before embarking until their Jesuit brothers from more distant lying provinces joined them. While they were detained here, thirty-two of their number died."

Sounds like they knew how to win the hearts and minds of the poor anyway.
 
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Gnarwhal

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I just... I just can't take anything seriously when I see "New World Order" in the title. I immediately think of nut jobs like Alex Jones and any credibility in the conversation goes right out the window. ^_^
 
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MoreCoffee

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Rick Otto

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Shhhhh!!!

It's all true! ;)

I believe the preponderance of circumstantial evidence is in the affirmative, in spite of the exhaustive research you present to debunk.

What a devastating giggle you have!
 
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Rick Otto

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I just... I just can't take anything seriously when I see "New World Order" in the title. I immediately think of nut jobs like Alex Jones and any credibility in the conversation goes right out the window. ^_^

That's because your critical thinking skills have been co-opted.

You don't take the "novo or do seculorum" on your currency seriously?
Seriously?

"Ain't nobody got time" fo sheep what can't tell de dog is workin' fo de man who calls himself "Sheppard".:D
 
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