Paul Washer - What does he mean when he said?....

GingerBeer said:

Why do you allow Paul Washer to have so much power over you?

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Paul Washer simply has a real power to convict brother Ben in this case, according to Matthew 5:20. This is a very core key to Kingdom Power.

Brother Ben has potential to repent (possibly unto greater righteousness than Paul Washer) and thus be approved as in Romans 8:1, which he can only find through an accurate knowledge of the gospel. I am quite keen to work with him to that effect. He has a lot of potential to offer The Kingdom.

Ben Collyer said:

watch the video starting at 4:50 and ending at 6:10

Basically he says that if the thought of the cross does not move you then your heart is dead and you know not God.

Washer has just destroyed my assurance of salvation, and therefore my joy, and therefore made me useless and fruitless as a christian

because sometimes I DO feel apathetic towards the cross, I dont weep with gratitude everytime I think about it, In fact I rarely think about the cross. so what gives washer the right to say im not saved if I dont feel this and this or that and that?

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It strikes me that being apathetic towards the cross as somewhat similar to the condition described about the church at Laodicea Revelation 3:14-22. I think it's up to you to figure out your apathy and what should be done with it, rather than concern yourself that Paul Washer is making you feel bad.

Ben Collyer said:

watch the video starting at 4:50 and ending at 6:10

Basically he says that if the thought of the cross does not move you then your heart is dead and you know not God.

Washer has just destroyed my assurance of salvation, and therefore my joy, and therefore made me useless and fruitless as a christian

because sometimes I DO feel apathetic towards the cross, I dont weep with gratitude everytime I think about it, In fact I rarely think about the cross. so what gives washer the right to say im not saved if I dont feel this and this or that and that?

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Why do you put your faith and salvation in the opinion of that guy? Jesus never even said any such thing about his voluntary death. That's post cross human speculation!!!! Jesus NEVER said he was to become sin, how ridiculous! At times I'm moved to weep over the cross because of how pig headed the religious people were who did that to Jesus thinking they were doing a service to God.

I spend my time thinking about the positive life that Jesus lived for the cause of salvation in the original gospel, not the negative Pagan concept of Jesus dyeing for the cause of sin.


There is salvation in the original gospel, the cross was a miracle that was icing on the cake. Unfortunately the cross became the central focus of the new remixed Gospel that evolved after Jesus left.

paul washer is rock solid and was most influential in my own spiritual and theological development, but like every other famous preacher, he's not infallible.

it takes discernment to affectively eat the meat and spit out the bones.

MOTIVATION OF THE CROSS A GOSPLE MESSAGE FOR THOSE BEING LED by OUR MIND OF CHRIST
"The cross" for remembrance of OUR salvation, forgiveness UNTO "Resurrection life" IF we see OUR daily to self daily as corporate process of being joined in soul with one another, of carrying it unto final surrender of self in total humility is a joy as we grow in the fruit of Lord Spirit having resigned self to "I can do nothing of myself", OUR journey is seeing OURself running a race: finished line “having dominion” dead to self, focused on lord's indwelling power to overcome our "natural self desire, IN revelation, the discovering of divine intimate truth, the past DEAD and BURIED OBEDIENT to LORD IN US/IN HIM; DEAD to being of the world, seeking vision of OUR hope of calling as KINGdom workers, seeing OUR part in the harvest, each, interdependently in fellowship with Lord Spirit having that same fellowship with each other to overcome, “firstfruits” in dominion.

HIS/OUR CROSS (inseparable) is simply the beginning of our FREELY allowing self to be LED into the unconditional love relationship Lord is recreating through indwelling OUR/HIS BODY of MORTAL FLESH. HIS HANDS, FEET, establishing KINGdom building a body of self control, with meekness, unto faithfulness, goodness, kindness, long-suffering, then becoming the fullness of intimacy in “OUR LIKENESS” functioning in unconditional love having joy, from the peace found in total trust in Lord's PROVISION of ALL THINGS for being HIS "GOOD WORK, FIRSTFRUITS in DOMINION TO RECREATE, RESTORING "ALL THINGS"

Ga 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

Ga 5:23 Meekness, self-control; growth starts with the last fruit

[for me anyway] he may be saying what he is saying because unto us (including you) which are saved the preaching of the cross is the power of God; but unto them that perish it is foolishness. As for feelings, I would refer to always that which is written, that if we are risen with Christ, then we should seek those things which are above, where Christ sits on the right hand of God; and we also should set our affections on things above, and not on things on the earth: some may ask why? because the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal; why then would we look for temporary things, and have affections for things that appear for a very short time, and then vanish away?
(1 Corinthians 1:18)
(Colossians 3:1-2)
(2 Corinthians 4:18)
(James 4:14)

Ben...take your eyes off man..any man any woman.. put them on HIM. Its not what ANYONE says here..its what HE SAYS. And dont go by how you FEEL. Feelings are up and down and all over the place. If I now think about the Cross.. so what? Shall I go by how I FEEL right now? Do you see?

Your the son of a GOD that came to die for you. And He didnt once ask you to FEEL LIKE this or that .. He said.. come to me.. if your heart is so heavy..no matter what it is ..come to me. You listen to what some man said. That was not Christ speaking. This does not mean that man is not of God.

He loves you so much. You are so blessed.

I didn't read all the responses but Paul Washer says a lot of really good, convicting stuff. I don't think he is 100% correct on everything but I think I can see the love of God in him to a degree. I have been going through issues of wondering about my salvation too because I keep sinning 5 years after finding God, even though I am growing in my repentance as time goes on which is the important thing. I feel that God has given me peace in keeping the gospel simple: love God with EVERYTHING you are and his love will guide you. God's love is beautiful and it's the only thing that makes sense. Everything that is not rooted in love is not peaceful and good and always leads me back to being depressed and alone. I love God's love. It cares about people and improves the lives of others.

Praying a prayer does not save you. We must KNOW the love of God. It's a beautiful thing. Keep pressing for the heart of God. Be like David, "a man after Gods own heart," because God REALLY DOES love and care about you and we REALLY ARE made in His image

Ben Collyer said:

watch the video starting at 4:50 and ending at 6:10

Basically he says that if the thought of the cross does not move you then your heart is dead and you know not God.

Washer has just destroyed my assurance of salvation, and therefore my joy, and therefore made me useless and fruitless as a christian

because sometimes I DO feel apathetic towards the cross, I dont weep with gratitude everytime I think about it, In fact I rarely think about the cross. so what gives washer the right to say im not saved if I dont feel this and this or that and that?

Click to expand...

I don't think he was saying that those who might sometimes think flippantly of the cross are not saved. I think he's saying that the significance of He who had no sin becoming sin for us is so great, that it must be explored, and that the cross will move the true Christian. Later on (9:06 to 9:21) he basically says we all fall horribly short all of the time. I have my criticisms of some of the things he says, but I don't think he was out to condemn people when he said that.

Ben Collyer said:

sometimes I DO feel apathetic towards the cross, I dont weep with gratitude everytime I think about it, In fact I rarely think about the cross. so what gives washer the right to say im not saved if I dont feel this and this or that and that?

Click to expand...

Washer with his broad condemnations bothers me, which is why I don't listen to him. When evaluating a message, always take it back to the person, teachings and work of Christ. Isaiah said of Jesus, "smoldering flaxen He will not extinguish". If you have a heart for God, you should protect that and cultivate it, and not be discouraged if you're not perfected yet.

OTOH, if you are lackadaisical about Christ, then that is something you should look to. Why is that the case? Stay in the Word, get godly counsel, pray and meditate, and get to the root of the problem.

i find when i spend more time with God (reading word and prayer) then i will be more moved by the thought of Jesus dying on the cross.