Paul: "Lest I be reprobated."

[Sentry]

"Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete but only one receives the prize? Then so run that you may receive But everyone that contends trains himself. They do it to receive a perishable crown but we an imperishable. Therefore I so run, not uncertainly. I do not fight as one beating the air but I pommel my body and bring it into subjection lest after preaching to others I myself should be reprobated."

Reprobated? Did we hear Paul right? Reprobated? Yes, this is the very same Greek word that is used at Romans 1:28, 2 Corinthians 13:5, 2 Corinthians 13:6, 2 Timothy 3:8, Titus 1:16 and Hebrews 6:8 which are all the other occurrences of this word in the New Testament. In these passages the word is commonly translated as "reprobate" in major translations. The word means "to reject" or "to be rejected," "unapproved" or "unfit."

Here Paul is telling us that he brings himself into subservient subjection lest he be reprobated from the prize. What is the prize exactly? This word is used in one other place in the New Testament

"That I may know him and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings, becoming like him in death, so that somehow I might obtain the resurrection of the dead. Not that I have already obtained this or already been made perfect, but I press on to make it my own because Christ Jesus has made me his own. I press on toward the mark of the prize of the calling above of God in Christ Jesus.... our citizenship is in heaven from where we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ who will change our humble body and transform it to be like his glorious body by the power which enables him to subject all things to himself." (Philippians 3:10-21)​

Here we see Paul telling us that his goal is the resurrection of the dead. This is the prize to which we are called above, the glorification of the body. This is the incorruptible crown for which we strive. The words "corruptible" and "incorruptible" are the language Paul uses to refer to the resurrection of the body. Peter also uses this terminology to refer to our salvation reserved in heaven for us (1 Peter 1:4-5).

And even further Paul goes on in the verses (10:1-12) which follow to warn Christians that they will be condemned if they follow the same example of the Israelites in the wilderness. Here, Paul tells the Corinthians that he brings his body under subjection to God so that he is not disqualified for the eternal prize. And then he follows this up by instruction the Corinthian Christians not to fall short of salvation on the last day by becoming unfaithful to God.

Paul is telling us that he knows there is a prospect of not being saved at the end of the age. And this is precisely why he gives us this exhortation in this passage. Paul feared reprobation if he did not remain true to Christ. So should we.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day, Sentry

Major translation "reprobate" where???

1Co 9:27

(ALT) _But_ I beat my body black and blue [fig., keep my body under control] and bring [it] into slavery [fig., make it ready to serve], lest, having preached to others, I myself become disqualified.

(ASV) but I buffet my body, and bring it into bondage: lest by any means, after that I have preached to others, I myself should be rejected.

(Bishops) But I tame my body, and bryng it into subiection, lest by any meanes, that when I haue preached to other, I my selfe shoulde be a castaway.

(ESV) But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

(GB) But I beate downe my body, and bring it into subiection, lest by any meanes after that I haue preached to other, I my selfe should be reproued.

(GNT) aalla tsball upwpiazw mou to swma kai doulagwgw amh apwv tsbmhpwv alloiv khrucav autov adokimov genwmai

(HCSB) Instead, I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

(HOT)​

​

​

(KJV+) But235 I keepunder5299 my3450 body,4983 and2532 bring it into subjection:1396 lest that by any means,3381 when I have preached2784 to others,243 I myself848 should be1096 a castaway.96

(KJVA) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

(NASB) but I discipline (55) my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

(RSVA) but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

(Vulgate) sed castigo corpus meum et in servitutem redigo ne forte cum aliis praedicaverim ipse reprobus efficiar

(YLT) but I chastise my body, and bring it into servitude, lest by any means, having preached to others--I myself may become disapproved.

It is true that it is tranlated "reprobate" in some context, and rightly so. One can see that rebrobate is not the normal usage, it is a sub minor useage.

I am starting to wonder where the poster got the Greek training, because he/she was ripped off IMHO...

Peace to u,

Bill

adokimos

Thayer Definition:

1) not standing the test, not approved

1a) properly used of metals and coins

2) that which does not prove itself such as it ought

2a) unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate

Part of Speech: adjective

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384

Citing in TDNT: 2:255, 181

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

I am starting to wonder where the poster got the Greek training, because he/she was ripped off IMHO...

Peace to u,

Bill

adokimos

Thayer Definition:

1) not standing the test, not approved

1a) properly used of metals and coins

2) that which does not prove itself such as it ought

2a) unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate

Part of Speech: adjective

A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G1 (as a negative particle) and G1384

Citing in TDNT: 2:255, 181

Hi Bill ,

I think our legalist friend got his greek training at the Bill and Hillary Clinton Traveling School of Languages.

 

[Sentry]

Good Day, Sentry

Major translation "reprobate" where???

In the passages I cited.

Do you wish to claim the word DOES NOT mean reprobated?

This is going to be another case of a Calvinist claiming the word means something different here isn't it?

 

[frumanchu]

"Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete but only one receives the prize? Then so run that you may receive But everyone that contends trains himself. They do it to receive a perishable crown but we an imperishable. Therefore I so run, not uncertainly. I do not fight as one beating the air but I pommel my body and bring it into subjection lest after preaching to others I myself should be reprobated."

Reprobated? Did we hear Paul right? Reprobated? Yes, this is the very same Greek word that is used at Romans 1:28, 2 Corinthians 13:5, 2 Corinthians 13:6, 2 Timothy 3:8, Titus 1:16 and Hebrews 6:8 which are all the other occurrences of this word in the New Testament. In these passages the word is commonly translated as "reprobate" in major translations. The word means "to reject" or "to be rejected," "unapproved" or "unfit."

Here Paul is telling us that he brings himself into subservient subjection lest he be reprobated from the prize. What is the prize exactly? This word is used in one other place in the New Testament

"That I may know him and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings, becoming like him in death, so that somehow I might obtain the resurrection of the dead. Not that I have already obtained this or already been made perfect, but I press on to make it my own because Christ Jesus has made me his own. I press on toward the mark of the prize of the calling above of God in Christ Jesus.... our citizenship is in heaven from where we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ who will change our humble body and transform it to be like his glorious body by the power which enables him to subject all things to himself." (Philippians 3:10-21)​

Here we see Paul telling us that his goal is the resurrection of the dead. This is the prize to which we are called above, the glorification of the body. This is the incorruptible crown for which we strive. The words "corruptible" and "incorruptible" are the language Paul uses to refer to the resurrection of the body. Peter also uses this terminology to refer to our salvation reserved in heaven for us (1 Peter 1:4-5).

And even further Paul goes on in the verses (10:1-12) which follow to warn Christians that they will be condemned if they follow the same example of the Israelites in the wilderness. Here, Paul tells the Corinthians that he brings his body under subjection to God so that he is not disqualified for the eternal prize. And then he follows this up by instruction the Corinthian Christians not to fall short of salvation on the last day by becoming unfaithful to God.

Paul is telling us that he knows there is a prospect of not being saved at the end of the age. And this is precisely why he gives us this exhortation in this passage. Paul feared reprobation if he did not remain true to Christ. So should we.

Sentry, the only thing I disagree with you on in this post is the use of the word "reprobate." I'd certainly be curious to know which translation you are using since none of the major translations render the Greek adokimos as "reprobated" in this particular verse.

Other than that, all you have done is repeat what Scripture states plainly: that we should press on and not become complacent. All those who profess the name of Christ should not think that their mere profession guarantees them the prize. Rather they should strive to run the race.

And all who are His will do so.

 

[Sentry]

Sentry, the only thing I disagree with you on in this post is the use of the word "reprobate." I'd certainly be curious to know which translation you are using since none of the major translations render the Greek adokimos as "reprobated" in this particular verse.

It is the EXACT same word that is used in the following verses:

And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient. (Rom 1:28).

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2 Cor 13:4).

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates. (2 Cor 13:6).

Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates. (2 Cor 13:7)

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. (2 Tim 3:8).

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. (Titus 1:16).

For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is rejected and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned (Hb 6:8).

Other than that, all you have done is repeat what Scripture states plainly: that we should press on and not become complacent. All those who profess the name of Christ should not think that their mere profession guarantees them the prize. Rather they should strive to run the race.

Well, I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as one beating the air; but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be rejected.

 

[frumanchu]

It is the EXACT same word that is used in the following verses:

And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient. (Rom 1:28).

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2 Cor 13:4).

But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates. (2 Cor 13:6).

Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates. (2 Cor 13:7)

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. (2 Tim 3:8).

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. (Titus 1:16).

For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is rejected and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned (Hb 6:8).

That it is. However, I don't think the numerous Greek scholars across the past few centuries flipped a coin when it came to 1 Co 9:27 and it just so happened that none of them ever ended up with "reprobate." You have to be judicious in swapping connotative definitions in and out of verses as it can often muddy the waters rather than clarifying.

Well, I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as one beating the air; but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be rejected.

And by God's preservation you will finish the raise and gain the prize, and we will rejoice together.

 

[Sentry]

That it is. However, I don't think the numerous Greek scholars across the past few centuries flipped a coin when it came to 1 Co 9:27 and it just so happened that none of them ever ended up with "reprobate." You have to be judicious in swapping connotative definitions in and out of verses as it can often muddy the waters rather than clarifying.

And what, pray tell, do YOU insist the word means here instead?

And by God's preservation you will finish the raise and gain the prize, and we will rejoice together.

So there is no "Lest I be reprobated" for you then correct?

 

[BBAS 64]

In the passages I cited.

Do you wish to claim the word DOES NOT mean reprobated?

This is going to be another case of a Calvinist claiming the word means something different here isn't it?

Good Day, Sentry

It seems you do not read what is posted here, I answered your question in the post that you only quoted the first line.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[frumanchu]

And what, pray tell, do YOU insist the word means here instead?

In the context of the verse (that of running a race), I believe "disqualified" is more appropriate.

So there is no "Lest I be reprobated" for you then correct?

Incorrect. The condition is clearly set forth. The question becomes who will meet the condition and why.

God promises to preserve believers in their faith, but such does not preclude our synergistic involvement in that perseverance.

 

[Sentry]

In the context of the verse (that of running a race), I believe "disqualified" is more appropriate.

Disqualified from what fru?

Incorrect. The condition is clearly set forth. The question becomes who will meet the condition and why.

No, there is no question. We know Paul is a Christian. And this Christian does not want to be disqualified. There is no point in talking about it if this is an impossibility.

God promises to preserve believers in their faith,

No, he does not.

 

[frumanchu]

Disqualified from what fru?

The race of course

No, there is no question. We know Paul is a Christian. And this Christian does not want to be disqualified. There is no point in talking about it if this is an impossibility.

Of course there is a point.

Consider the following example. Suppose a physics teacher makes the statement that if gravity should suddenly cease on Earth we would all go spinning off into space. We know that this cannot reasonably occur, so according to you there is no point in talking about it. However, the students may come to better understand the principle of centrifugal motion because of this "impossible" example.

No, he does not.

Yes, He does.

 

[Sentry]

The race of course

What race and what prize?

Of course there is a point.

Consider the following example. Suppose a physics teacher makes the statement that if gravity should suddenly cease on Earth we would all go spinning off into space. We know that this cannot reasonably occur, so according to you there is no point in talking about it. However, the students may come to better understand the principle of centrifugal motion because of this "impossible" example.

I see. So you are actually claiming that Paul is talking about a hypothetical situation that will not in fact occur and cannot occur. Right?

 

[frumanchu]

What race and what prize?

Holding fast to the profession of faith to obtain eternal life.

I see. So you are actually claiming that Paul is talking about a hypothetical situation that will not in fact occur and cannot occur. Right?

Can it happen? Yes. Will it happen? No.

 

[Sentry]

Holding fast to the profession of faith to obtain eternal life.



Can it happen? Yes. Will it happen? No.

Absurd.

You really think you can get out of God's words with your own head games don't you?

Explain how it CAN happen.

Explain why it WON'T happen even though it CAN.

 

[Van]

The issue of 1 Corinthians 9:27 is not whether to translate the Greek as reprobated or disqualified, because both fall within the range of meaning of the term. No, the issue is is Paul saying he might lose his salvation, or be disqualifed from preaching self control? From the context, I think Paul is saying he must exercise self control in order to effectively preach self control as part of being a slave of the gospel, of being all things so that he can save more people. In verse 9:14 Paul puts it this way, "the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel." Today we might say a preacher must walk the talk to be effective.

 

[Sentry]

The issue of 1 Corinthians 9:27 is not whether to translate the Greek as reprobated or disqualified, because both fall within the range of meaning of the term. No, the issue is is Paul saying he might lose his salvation,

No that is not the issue.

or be disqualifed from preaching self control? From the context, I think Paul is saying he must exercise self control in order to effectively preach self control as part of being a slave of the gospel, of being all things so that he can save more people. In verse 9:14 Paul puts it this way, "the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel." Today we might say a preacher must walk the talk to be effective.

Oh yeah that must it.

That is the prize he is talking about right?

 

[Van]

Sentry, first you say the issue is not whether Paul was talking about loss of salvation or being disqualified from preaching self control, but then you take issue with my contention Paul was talking about being disqualified from preaching? So I stand pat, I think that is the issue.

No, the prize is not remaining qualified to preach self control. The prize is the imperishable reward, Paul does all things, including exercising self control, so that others will be saved, or as Paul puts it, become a fellow partaker of the gospel. He is not preaching to save himself through works, but to obtain the imperishable reward of fellow partakers in the gospel.

 

[Sentry]

Sentry, first you say the issue is not whether Paul was talking about loss of salvation or being disqualified from preaching self control, but then you take issue with my contention Paul was talking about being disqualified from preaching? So I stand pat, I think that is the issue.

No, the prize is not remaining qualified to preach self control. The prize is the imperishable reward, Paul does all things, including exercising self control, so that others will be saved, or as Paul puts it, become a fellow partaker of the gospel. He is not preaching to save himself through works, but to obtain the imperishable reward of fellow partakers in the gospel.

Uh huh. Let's read this again:

Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable crown, but we an imperishable. Well, I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as one beating the air; but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.


Disqualified from preaching self control? Absurd.

 

[Van]

Again, I stand pat, my view reflects what Paul is saying, yours does not.

By the numbers the imperishable prize is the salvation of others.
This is the reward for preaching the gospel effectively.
If Paul disqualifies himself by not exercising self control, he cannot preach the gospel as effectively as if he practiced self control.

"So run that you may obtain the prize" Practice self control.
So that we may obtain an imperishable prize, the salvation of others.
If I preach self control to others, and then do not practice it myself, I disqualify myself from preaching self control to others.

The jewels in our imperishable crown are our children in Christ, those we have helped lead to Christ.

I do not see how it can be read any other way, but that is the issue.