Part II; Pagan word Hell

[Ben12]

http://christianforums.com/t6671718&page=2


Well I hope I am in the right religous area for this debate....

I started this tread over in eschatology and was ask to bring it over here; I can and will repeat what I have written if the same questions are asked of me; so please feel free to check out what was written in eschatology forum above. I am not a Religious or Greek scholar or any kind of scolar; but it is so obvious that the word hell is not in the original language of scripture in fact it is very obvious it was put their by corrupt and bias translators. I find there is a real bias in with these early translator doing all they can to promote this doctrine of damnation; and this bias has continued with translators today. There are so many inconsistencies to this whole doctrine of eternal torment; all it takes is a Christian to open his spiritual eyes and dig a little bit beyond the letter that killeth and the truth will be opened.

2 Peter 2:1 ​

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.​

Strong’s NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):

KJV - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste.

Notice what the Greek says the false prophets bring. Do they bring the message that God will save all; do they bring the good news of salvation to the whole earth. No they bring damnations , destruction, perish etc.

My sister says my Bible says there is a hell; so I am going to believe my Bible. Of course it is so sad that she is so blinded like the Pharisees and Sadducee during the time of Jesus by her very religion. If this was the case her son would be their as well as so many people she loves but tries to condemn every day. Well so does my Bible declare there is a hell; but most Bibles have taken the Pagan word hell out of their Bibles because it JUST is not in the original language.

 

[Terral]

Hi Ben:

Ben >> Part II; Pagan word Hell (link) Well I hope I am in the right religious area for this debate.... I started this tread over in eschatology and was ask to bring it over here; I can and will repeat what I have written if the same questions are asked of me; so please feel free to check out what was written in eschatology forum above.

Many fail to realize Eschatology is a “System of doctrines concerning ‘final matters,’ such as death” with the secondary definition being “The study of the end times – the end of the world, the Second Coming, or the Lost Judgment.”

Ben >> I am not a Religious or Greek scholar or any kind of scholar; but it is so obvious that the word hell is not in the original language of scripture in fact it is very obvious it was put their by corrupt and bias translators.

We most certainly disagree. The terms ‘faith’ and ‘grace’ and ‘righteousness’ do not appear in the Original Greek Language either, but they are ‘English translations’ into terms that we ‘do’ understand today. The Greek scholar has nothing to gain by manufacturing the term “hell” out of thin air. :0)

Ben >> I find there is a real bias in with these early translator doing all they can to promote this doctrine of damnation; and this bias has continued with translators today.

Now your nonreligious train is leaving the tracks where Ben appears to be in denial of a vital aspect of ‘sound doctrine’ taught in a series of precepts.

Ben >> There are so many inconsistencies to this whole doctrine of eternal torment; all it takes is a Christian to open his spiritual eyes and dig a little bit beyond the letter that killeth and the truth will be opened.

We agree. However, the chances are that Ben will continue being in denial about what Jesus Christ teaches concerning “hell fire.” The Greek definition of “geenna” (#1067) is based upon a place known to every Jew in Judea called the “Valley of Hinnom,”

1) Hell is the place of the future punishment call "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.

The Valley of Hinnom is the local garbage dump where everyone carried their refuse for burning in a fire that was continual and burned the entire lives of people like Peter, John and James. Jesus Christ Himself made the ‘hell fire’ garbage dump connection in teaching His disciples about the place of ‘eternal torment’ where the wicked suffer continual condemnation inside the earth.

"You have heard that the ancients were told, 'You shall not commit murder' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.” Matthew 5:21-22.

"If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.” Matthew 5:29-30.

Deleting the term “geenna” from Christ’s teaching will require Ben and everyone here to replace the meaning with something else, but the scholars have properly placed the term “hell” into the right location for Christ’s teaching to be understood in modern day English. You will find that my understanding of “geenna” matches that of Vine to a Tee here. One does not require a Greek scholar’s education to benefit from using the Greek Dictionary. :0) However, if you really feel that Vine has something to gain by errantly inventing his own definitions, then Ben is definitely in denial about ‘the truth’ of this topic. You quoted,

2Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Ben’s Dictionary Definition >> Strong’s NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal): KJV - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste.

If Ben is really interested in studying the original Greek terms for hell and hades, then why waste valuable Opening Post space with definitions of ‘heresies,’ as if these Greek Scholars ‘can’ get only some definitions right? :0) No sir. This is more evidence that Ben is in denial concerning ‘the truth’ about Hades and Hell taught by Christ Himself more than any other Bible Principal. Your suggestion is that Jesus Christ is teaching damnable heresies AND without quoting a single word of “His testimony” on this topic. Everyone should be warned against accepting the ‘false teaching’ about the nonexistence of Hades, which is the kind of doctrinal crime that Ben here is warning everyone about.

Ben >> Notice what the Greek says the false prophets bring. Do they bring the message that God will save all; do they bring the good news of salvation to the whole earth. No they bring damnations, destruction, perish etc.

No sir. This is Ben’s unsupported opinion from a guy professing not to be a religious man or Greek scholar. Your own conclusions appear to be from a man blinded by Universalism that claims everyone will be saved come hell or high water. :0) Many Universalists blinded by their brand of Denominationalism are in complete denial that a place of eternal torment even exists, so they blame Greek scholars for inventing the concept.

Ben >> My sister says my Bible says there is a hell; so I am going to believe my Bible. Of course it is so sad that she is so blinded like the Pharisees and Sadducee during the time of Jesus by her very religion.

What you and your sister believe is irrelevant to this ‘Hell/Hades’ Topic taught by Jesus Christ Himself in the Four Gospels. We are here to find out what Ben ‘can’ prove using Scripture and his Greek Dictionary on the existence or nonexistence of Christ’s “fiery hell” (Matt. 5:22, 18:9). Everyone here can see that you avoided looking up hell and Hades to prove Greek scholars have invented their own false doctrine.

Ben >> If this was the case her son would be their as well as so many people she loves but tries to condemn every day. Well so does my Bible declare there is a hell; but most Bibles have taken the Pagan word hell out of their Bibles because it JUST is not in the original language.

You appear to be asking a question, but then feel reluctant to add the question mark for fear someone might come along and offer the right answer. :0) My best guess is that you will fail in attempting to convince one soul of anything on this thread; other than the fact that Ben is in denial about a place of torment clearly taught in New Testament Scripture. The fact is that the Hebrew concept of “Sheol” reveals a place inside this earth with a ‘triune’ nature comprising three compartments separated from one another (third diagram on right) that Christ describes in Luke 16. The rich man had a good life on the earth, while Lazarus was his ‘poor man’ counterpart:

"Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.” Luke 16:22-25.

Jesus Christ is describing a ‘Paradise’ side of Sheol where the righteous are comforted, but in clear sight of those in the agony of Hades across the ‘great chasm’ that we should recognize as the ‘bottomless pit’ of Revelation 9:1-2 and the ‘abyss’ of Revelation 20:3 where Satan is chained for the 1000 years. Christ continues,

'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.' And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house-- for I have five brothers--in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!' But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'" Luke 16:26-31.

Have Greek scholars invented the concepts of Paradise containing Abraham’s bosom, Hades for those tormented AND the Bottomless Pit (great chasm) standing between them?? No! Jesus Christ has given us a good picture of “Sheol” and the underworld prepared specifically to house the dead, until such a time that Christ could lead captivity captive to the ‘heavenly’ place that Paul describes as “Paradise,”

“Boasting is necessary, though it is not profitable; but I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven. And I know how such a man--whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows – was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak.” 2Corinthians 12:1-4.

Nobody in the Old Testament could pass from Sheol to the heavenly Paradise counterpart, until Jesus Christ paid the sin debt at Calvary to THEN lead “captive a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.” Ephesians 4:8. This marked the moment that Paradise inside the earth was emptied, so those held captive, in the bosom of their fathers, could be led into the heavenly rest in anticipation of resurrection to either an earthly (Eze. 37:11-12) or heavenly (Gen. 22:17 = as stars of heaven) existence and inheritance. These Scriptural teachings do not even begin to describe the vast differences between Hades inside this earth AND the “Lake of Fire which burns with brimstone” prepared for the devil and all his little helpers:

“And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.” Revelation 19:20.

“And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” Revelation 20:10.

“Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” Revelation 20:14-15.

The very place that you say does not even exist (Hades) is thrown into the lake of fire taught as the “Second Death” and the reward of everyone not found in the Lamb’s book of life. If Hades is a Greek scholar invention, then how about the concept of the lake of fire? :0) No sir. I encourage you to open up your Bible and read every word Jesus Christ has to say about Hell and Hades to then research both terms in the Strong’s Lexicon and Vine’s Expository Dictionary of NT Words AND without any preconceived notions or bias from your own unsupported "Universalism" conclusions. However, be assured that ALL of those thrown into the lake of fire will be tormented day and night forever and ever, whether Ben ever gains insight into this topic one way or the other. “God devises ends for His enemies” with Hades and the Lake of Fire representing the final place of torment for the bad guys wearing the black hats in this picture show . . .

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Ben12]

Terral

Glad some one has final taken me on; and you are wrong the teaching of eternal torment are not sound Biblical doctrine; they are damnable heresies and if any one is twisting scripture; you are.

2 Peter 2:1​

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.​

Notice the Greek; Damnable: Strong’s NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal): KJV - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste.

Notice what the Greek says the false prophets bring. Do they bring the message that God will save all; do they bring the good news of salvation to the whole earth. No they bring damnations , destruction, perish etc.

Somehow you religious types have taken your negative UN-Christ like teaching and twisted this beautiful deep book we call the Bible and put your like negative spin on it to SCARE God’s people into submission. If you look around today you can see it has done little good; in fact most people put this whole negative belief system some where between Santa Clause and the Easter bunny. I am not saying to make you mad; it is just true.

You claim the Lake of Fire, Second death, judgments, the Parable of Lazarus and the list goes on all have this torturous eternal doom and this all is accomplished by the very same lamb of God BECAUSE HE DID NOT get HIS OWN WAY……..

Where does this come from; The Bible; yes that is true; if you are a literalist, a person who dare not dig beyond the letter that killeth. One that dare not seek truth unless it comes from religious leader, (just like the Jews) or tradition long establish by man to put God in their little box. A traditionalist like the Pharisees and Sadducees during Jesus day where He declared to them: Matthew 15:6b Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

The Bible also declares we should seek ask and knock; and it says a lot about not following traditional teaching. So much that is taught in religion today is from tradition and not revelation; there is a pattern in the Bible when it comes to the word tradition; it is not spoken of in a positive light.


Well I hope you can handle truth out side the camp; because you will never get it inside the religious system; let us debate…..

 

[Ben12]

You mention the Greek word Gehenna which has nothing to do the pagan Teutonic word hell. Hell is not only a pagan word; found in Pagan religions of Rome and Baby lon and the list goes on. Te word hell an obvious distortion by the translators; which also happens with the words eternal; everlasting and so many of word translations pertaining to these doctrines of damnations. There is no connection between in or translation in any of the four Biblical base words in the Hebrew or Greek in fact most Bible translators do not even include the word hell in their new translations; BECAUSE IT IS NOT: I repeat NOT in the original LANGUAGE.

Gehenna is the word which the preachers love to burn people up; what does the Bible say reference this word? Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; a place of constant burning of refuge, which we agree on; BUT. Those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified by God’s holy judgment.

Jesus was not speaking to the world/pagan people/sinners; he was speaking to the Jews (believers during His time He walked on this earth); when ever He used this Greek word Gehenna. Gehenna is not physical flames, even though Gehenna is the garbage dump outside the city of Jerusalem. Gehenna Judgment is actually spiritual in nature; it is the reaping of what Israel had sown by killing the prophets and their children in the fire to Molech and Baal at Topheth and in the Valley of Ben Hiddom (later called Gehenna). God warned that those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. All things that are not of God will be purified by God’s holy judgment. This word is used not for sinner, murders or liars; it is used with the word “BROTHER”.

Matthew 5:22

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna) fire.​

 

[Ben12]

Eternalhellist know little about the Priesthood of God; oh sure they can tell you about the Priesthood in the Catholic or Mormon religion. But to address the priesthood of scripture is something very foreign to their understanding; and it should be.

But I have one question for you? Revelations 6:1 And hath made us kings and priests unto Godand his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. If we are to become kings and priests unto God; who will we rule over if billon upon billions are in this so called torture chamber forever and ever; while we watch them burn and ask for water? There is more to the kings and priests issue in scripture; I believes ties in with the Melchizedek Priesthood in Hebrews. And especially with King David and the Tabernacle of David which will be established for te remainder of mankind. Acts 15:17

Ex. 19:5-6: "And ye shall be unto Me A KINGDOM OF PRIESTS." The full text reads, "Now, therefore, if ye will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto Me above all people: for all the earth is Mine: and ye shall be unto Me A KINGDOM OF PRIESTS, and an holy nation."

We could not think of a disobedient people being for God - "a peculiar treasure, a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." The apostle Peter speaks of the saints as "children of obedience"; they are begotten of that nature, and characterized by it. He speaks of "being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the living and abiding Word of God" (I Pet. 1:14, 23). Man after the flesh is born of corruptible seed, but there is another generation born of incorruptible seed, who desire earnestly the pure milk of the Word, and then the strong meat of the Word, and who grow up into the measure of the stature of the fullness of the Christ by it. They become "a chosen race, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a people for a purpose" (I Pet. 2:9). Just what the Lord proposed in Exodus chapter 19.

Let us not forget Acts 15: Where the Tabernacle of David will be established which God will draw the remainder of mankind……

 

[Terral]

Hi Ben:

Ben >> Glad some one has final taken me on; and you are wrong the teaching of eternal torment are not sound Biblical doctrine; they are damnable heresies and if any one is twisting scripture; you are . . .

Yea, yea, yea . . . We saw your 2Peter 2:1 ‘heresy’ nonsense in the OP, which has NOTHING to do with this “hell fire” topic taught by Jesus Christ Himself. What did Ben ‘quote >>’ from my Post #2 rebuttal to prove errant using Scripture? Nothing. :0) Restating your same old denial, denial, denial of the truth finds Ben with his head jammed into the sand unwilling to even debate the topic. Ben does not want to believe in the concepts of hell, Hades or the Lake of Fire, so he plays these ‘heresy’ games (heh) and hopes nobody will notice . . .

Ben >> Somehow you religious types have taken your negative UN-Christ like teaching and twisted this beautiful deep book we call the Bible and put your like negative spin on it to SCARE God’s people into submission.

No sir. Hell and the lake of fire are not anywhere near my favorite topics, but they are taught in Scripture by our Lord Jesus Christ just the same. Perhaps Ben is so naive that he has already forgotten the One he accuses of teaching his "fiery hell" heresy is our Lord Jesus Christ. :0) The concept of Hades is found coming from Christ’s lips in the passage where His true identity is stated by Peter:

“He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven." Matthew 16:15-19.

But of course, Ben says the ‘gates of Hades’ does not really exist in his universe. :0) Peter turned around to return the favor by speaking of Hades in relation to Chris being raised from the dead on the Day of Pentecost, saying,

"And so, because he was a prophet and knew that God had sword to him an oath to seat of His descendents on his throne, and looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that He was neither abandoned to Hades, nor did His flesh suffer decay. This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. “Acts 2:30-32.

If God did not abandon Christ to HADES, then what other Greek word would Ben like to add to ‘his’ own personal translation? :0) Ben has ignored Christ’s Luke 16 teaching from Post #2 to start rambling endlessly with accusations about HERESY, because he has NO CASE or excuse for why hell, Hades and the Lake of Fire are all taught in God’s Living Word.

Ben >> If you look around today you can see it has done little good; in fact most people put this whole negative belief system some where between Santa Clause and the Easter bunny. I am not saying to make you mad; it is just true.

No sir. Ben is in denial about even the existence of hell, Hades and the Lake of fire, because he is blinded by Universalism finding him lying facedown in the ditch without even a clue. :0) You can deny, deny, deny the existence of heaven, hell and everything in between, and until the cows come home, if that makes Ben happy . . .

Ben >> You claim the Lake of Fire, Second death, judgments, the Parable of Lazarus and the list goes on all have this torturous eternal doom and this all is accomplished by the very same lamb of God BECAUSE HE DID NOT get HIS OWN WAY……..

God or His Only Begotten Son getting Their way has nothing to do with anything. Jesus Christ speaks many times in Revelation and includes the teachings of “death and Hades,” saying,

When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades. Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things.” Revelation 1:17-19.

If Christ is NOT talking about the concepts of ‘death and Hades,’ then just what does Ben say He is talking about? :0) Your assertion that Scripture, or anyone else, is scaring anyone into submission is ludicrous, because the Apostle Paul never mentions hell, Hades or the Lake of Fire even once in any of his Thirteen Epistles addressed to Gentiles. Our Lord Jesus Christ is the One ‘you say’ is inventing the concepts of hell and Hades out of thin air, which the scholars are only guilty of translating from the Greek. :0) Christ appointed the Seventy in Luke 10 to say,

"But whatever city you enter and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say, 'Even the dust of your city which clings to our feet we wipe off in protest against you; yet be sure of this, that the kingdom of God has come near.' I say to you, it will be more tolerable in that day for Sodom than for that city. Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had been performed in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will be brought down to Hades! The one who listens to you listens to Me, and the one who rejects you rejects Me; and he who rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me." Luke 10:10-16.

If these disobedient souls are NOT to be “brought down to Hades!,” then just where does Ben want to place them? :0) Ben appears oblivious to the absolute fact that he is twisting ‘the truth’ of hell fire, Hades and the Lake of Fire out of God’s Living Word that is filled with warnings against rejecting our Lord Jesus Christ AND “His God and Father” (Rev. 1:6) who sent Him. So, what is the punishment for those disobedient souls, if Christ is a LIAR and nobody goes down to Hades, because no such place even exists? :0) Oh, he has 2Peter 2:1 with talk about ‘heresies’ . . . . Heh . . .

Ben >> Where does this come from; The Bible; yes that is true; if you are a literalist, a person who dare not dig beyond the letter that killeth.

If Ben wants to bury his head in the sand, over even the simple concepts of hell, Hades and the Lake of Fire, then he is perfectly within his rights to sit in the stench of his ignorance to the end of time itself. After all, if he is unwilling to believe the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ from Scripture, then he will obviously disregard anything from a bible thumper like me. :0)

Anyone led astray by his denial of the truth and Universalism Propaganda is not even paying attention . . .

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

 

[Ben12]

Terral,

Hades; did I mention Hades? I know I wrote about Gehenna; where you’re your comments on Gehenna? I did mention the four words that were mistranslated hell and that they are mis-translated; and they are. Are you deny they are mis translated? I am deny the doctrine of eternal torment. I said very little on the Lake of fire; which is totally a symbolic spiritual fire.

Here are the definitions of the other three words mistranslated as hell.

There are other translations like the Companion Bible King James Version, American Standard Version (1901), the Newberry Reference Bible (Still published by Kregal Publications), and the Riverside New Testament by Ballantine (1934) which contain footnotes, marginal readings and appendages which point out that several key Greek and Hebrew words regarding Hell have been MIStranslated by such Bible versions as the King James Bible. I have a list of Bibles which show the translations that contain the word Hell as well as the ones that don’t in the text is NOT exhaustive--we are discovering more translations all the time in which the translators did not feel justified in using the Teutonic pagan word Hell to translate the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek words Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus.

You are on the right track but actually the word is not in the Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic the language the Bible was written in; but it comes from an Angle Saxon word “hel” meaning to bury. It is more then a mis-translation it a premeditated deliberate assault on scripture to in introduce the Teutonic pagan word

Tar-ta-rus(tart rs) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1 an infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils not people. (mentioned only once in the Bible)

Ha-des(hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a) the home of the dead, beneath the earth b) the god of the underworld 2 Bible the state or resting place of the dead: name used in some modern translations of the New Testament

She-ol (eol) [[Heb shaal , to dig]] a place in the depths of the earth conceived of as the dwelling of the dead Note: translated in KJV about haft of scriptures as hell, the other haft as grave

 

[Ben12]

Terral


First of all I do believe in Hade, Shiloh and even Tartarus which have given a definition of. I even believe in the Second Death, Lake of Fire which I will give to you in detail what the scripture is saying not Baby lon (note spelling).

I asked you about the priesthood of God? Denial?

You keep using the word denial; when you are the one denying so much of what the Bible is declaring because of your doctrines of damnation. You have denied 2 Peter 2:1 having anything to do with hell etc. What does the word damnation means (denial)? Should I get my Greek dictionary out and show you; oh I know according to you I am the only one in denial.

You believe in a God who cannot save people because He has not enough will to do so; but at the same time a God who wills billions upon billions to an eternal torture chamber; I believe in a God who will save all.

What is greater the blood of the lamb; or the sin of Adam?

You have a monster for a God, an evil monster with no mercy; one worst then Hitler, Stalin; Mao, Ben Laden combine who only killed millions. (the Jesus I know would never do such an evil thing) Now let us compare to your God of your mistranslated Bible who will torture billions and billions with no mercy for eternity; that is your interpretation. Somehow this evil God you and your buddies have invented is the same who walked the shores of Galilee; healing the sick and declaring “he who has not sin cast the first stone”; who told the lady at the well ”go and sin no more” and the list goes on and on and on…..

Your God s not a balance God; He has no mercy; He can only handle a few for salvation; and the devil has more power; look at the numbers. The Bible declares God will save all; and that is what God is doing today in the earth. He is not calling all men; just His firstfruit; then the remainder of mankind……

I will show you that in the Bible also (the bad translated missed that part)

 

[Ben12]

I do believe the wicked punished (pruned) in the lake of fire; but not eternally. A careful study of the Greek word “aionios” (translated as “eternal,” “everlasting,” and “forever and ever” in our English translations) shows that it comes from the Greek noun “aion” which always means “an indeterminate period of time.” It is a most unfortunate thing that the translators of old chose to translate “aionios” from the Latin language rather than the Greek from which the word is derived. God’s punishment will not last forever as is commonly taught, but will only last for the ages and only UNTIL God’s purpose for it is complete.

I believe every word that the Bible says about the lake of fire; I don't believe what Rome says about it, nor what the apostate Churches say about it, nor what tradition says about it; but I certainly believe what the Bible says about it.

The teaching concerning the lake of fire does not appear anywhere in Scripture except in the book of Revelation (a book of symbols) where it is spoken of in the following passages: Rev. 14:10-11; 19:20; 20:10; 20:13-15 and 21:8. This last passage definitely states, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolators, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." There should be no question remaining as to the certainty of this lake of fire; neither should there be any doubt as to the awful consequence of having to be cast into it. These Scriptures with their dreadful foreboding should be a fearful warning to all unthinking and foolish people who, because of their love for the world, the flesh, and the devil, have dared to ask why we should serve God now if all are going to be saved eventually. Such people have no love for God nor fear of God, and they manifest by what they say that their professed serving of God is only a pretense, arising - not from any true love for Him - but from fear of punishment. If there were no prospect of hell these would promptly tell God to go to hell and they would, themselves, go to the devil. It is not thus with those who truly love God, for they serve not from fear, but from pure love and devotion. Remove punishment completely from the universe, and they would still serve God with all their hearts.


FIRE is the heat and light that you feel and see when something burns. It takes heat to start a fire, but once the fire is started it produces heat that keeps the process going. Thus, fire is really HEAT and LIGHT.

In my study of the lake that burns with fire and brimstone I was very much helped and impressed by the understanding given by Charles Pridgeon and I would like to quote from his scholarly work on the subject of BRIMSTONE. He says: "The Lake of Fire and Brimstone signifies a fire burning with brimstone; the word 'brimstone' or sulphur defines the character of the fire. The Greek word THEION translated 'brimstone' is exactly the same word THEION which means 'divine.' Sulphur was sacred to the deity among the ancient Greeks; and was used to fumigate, to purify, and to cleanse and consecrate to the deity; for this purpose they burned it in their incense. In Homer's Iliad (16:228), one is spoken of as purifying a goblet with fire and brimstone. The verb derived from THEION is THEIOO, which means to hallow, to make divine, or to dedicate to a god (See Liddell and Scott Greek-English Lexicon, 1897 Edition). To any Greek, or any trained in the Greek language, a 'lake of fire and brimstone' would mean a 'lake of divine purification.' The idea of judgment need not be excluded. Divine purification and divine consecration are the plain meaning in ancient Greek. In the ordinary explanation, this fundamental meaning of the word is entirely left out, and nothing but eternal torment is associated with it" -end quote.

The above a quote from REV. CHARLES H. PRIDGEON, M. A President and Founder of the Pittsburgh Bible Institute.

 

[Ben12]

Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) James broke the silence. "Friends, listen. Simeon has told us the story of how God at the very outset made sure that racial outsiders were included. This is in perfect agreement with the words of the prophets:

After this, I'm coming back; I'll rebuild David's ruined house;
I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new
So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to,
All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing.
"God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this


Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,
Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,

Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord.
This means all the non-Jews who belong to me.
The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.' —(Amos 9:11,12)

 

[Ben12]

On the surface death seems so negative; but in the hands of an all knowing God even death has a victory. It is a fact the more new walk by His anointing the weaker our flesh will become and we will subdue us as well as every form of resistance of the carnal nature until it is His life alone that is made manifest. Nothing like the glorious anointing of the Holy Spirit to make us weak - weak yet very strong for there is power released of which few know anything about because they have refused to accept the sphere of weakness where in He is made strong.

The first Adam died to God and righteousness, and became alive unto sin. The last Adam died unto sin (Rom. 6:10), and liveth unto God, and so fulfilleth all righteousness. The first made all men sinners, the last makes all men righteous. The lives and the deaths of the two Adams are thus greatly contrasting the one to the other. The FIRST DEATH was a transition from life to death, the SECOND DEATH is a transition from corruption to incorruption, from mortality to immortality. Transformed from the carnal mind to the spiritual mind, which is life and peace, which transformation is wrought by a dying out to the one realm, to come alive to the higher realm. Because -- the second death is prepared to purge out and burn away sin and its results, and so doing cleanse all of God's universe. Death came as an enemy, the fruitage of an act of disobedience that turned man away from God and into the realm of carnality, minding self and flesh. Now God makes death overcome itself. It is by death that death is rendered powerless, and there arises an upspringing, a new life. It takes death to destroy death, and thus Christ 'did taste death for every man' --'that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage' (Heb. 2:9, 14-15). Since we are all under the effects of the first death, it is appointed unto us to die once more -- not physical death, we are already in a state of mortality -- but now a dying out to this present death state. We conquer this death of the carnal mind by dying to it -- only God could use such a process bringing victory, but praise God, lie is destroying the first death with the second death" -- end quote.

Death is used to die out to which caused us to be entangled. After that the death process, after that comes salvation with its more abundant life. Thought death there is much that is destroyed-made non effect. It brings an end to so many things. All the old life, the carnality, the self life, the will the imaginations, the intents; but destroyed by the cross. However God does not desire fellowship with a corpse, so needs to follow a resurrection to much more divine living.

Above all, the weakness is an attitude of the heart, weather it has any outward forms expressed or not, it really does not matter when we know in ourselves that we are nothing so we lean heavily on Him. Drawing from Him that strength which is equal to the need, and that grace which is truly sufficient for all things. How precious does the Spirit help our weakness, as we rise to walk in that new creative life.

Romans 8: 19For [even the whole] creation (all nature) waits expectantly and longs earnestly for God's sons to be made known [waits for the revealing, the disclosing of their sonship].
20For the creation (nature) was subjected to [9] frailty (to futility, condemned to frustration), not because of some intentional fault on its part, but by the will of Him Who so subjected it--[yet] with the hope(4)
21That nature (creation) itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and corruption [and gain an entrance] into the glorious freedom of God's children.
22We know that the whole creation [of irrational creatures] has been moaning together in the pains of labor until now.(5)
23And not only the creation, but we ourselves too, who have and enjoy the firstfruits of the [Holy] Spirit [a foretaste of the blissful things to come] groan inwardly as we wait for the redemption of our bodies [from sensuality and the grave, which will reveal] our adoption (our manifestation as God's sons).
24For in [this] hope we were saved. But hope [the object of] which is seen is not hope. For how can one hope for what he already sees?


Second Death: Lake of Fire=
Romans 8

(Concordant Translation)
Rev 2:11 "'"Who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit is saying to the ecclesias (Church or called out). "'"The one who is conquering may under no circumstances be injured by the second death."
(KJV)
Rev. 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death


(Concordant Translation)
Rev 20:6 Happy and holy is he who is having part in the former resurrection! Over these the second death has no jurisdiction, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will be reigning with Him the thousand years.


Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
(Whole Chapter: Revelation 2 In context: Revelation 2:10-12)
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
(Whole Chapter: Revelation 20 In context: Revelation 20:5-7)
Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(Whole Chapter: Revelation 20 In context: Revelation 20:13-15)
Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.