Paradise Lost

[NinjaPirate777]

Paradise lost is a book about the fall of the dark angels and the corruption of mankind. Some say it encourages sympathy for the devil. I disagree. I think/feel it shows the depravity of the fallen angels in their dealings with people. Specifically Adam and Eve in their uncorrupted state. The fall of Adam and Eve is where the loss of good, beautiful and true happened and where my sympathy lies.

What do you think?

I will offer a video of a Sunday school teacher who in my opinion does a great job covering this topic.

 

[Astrid]

Paradise lost is a book about the fall of the dark angels and the corruption of mankind. Some say it encourages sympathy for the devil. I disagree. I think/feel it shows the depravity of the fallen angels in their dealings with people. Specifically Adam and Eve in their uncorrupted state. The fall of Adam and Eve is where the loss of good, beautiful and true happened and where my sympathy lies.

What do you think?

I will offer a video of a Sunday school teacher who in my opinion does a great job covering this topic.

It's a story that we Chinese find quite strange

 

[J_B_]

I've never read it, largely because I developed a certain weariness with medieval myth. I know the book isn't technically of that historical period, but what little I know of it feels of that era. Satan is not currently in hell, and will not reign over it after God casts him down.

I did read The Pilgrim's Progress, and that book played a large part in creating said weariness. It was a difficult slog.

The books have an important place in history, but IMO are of little literary or theological value.

 

[Whyayeman]

I had Pilgrim's Progress rammed down my throat as a child. Such tedium!

Paradise Lost was published in 1667 so not at all mediaeval. John Milton was a Puritan critic of King Charles I and supporter of the Parliamentarians (Roundheads). The work is pretty well unreadable today without explanatory notes but was very influential at the time. It has acquired so much authority that some people seem to regard it as one of the Books of the Bible!

Fortunately I was spared it as boy. I read it recently (English language and culture still reverberates to its language) but was less than thrilled by it.

 

[Hans Blaster]

It's a story that we Chinese find quite strange

I was a catholic and I find the whole thing strange.

 

[Chesterton]

It's a story that we Chinese find quite strange

I was a catholic and I find the whole thing strange.

What's strange about it?

 

[J_B_]

What's strange about it?

That the poem is described as "epic", yet I can't find anything on tiktok by Satan. How can it be epic if it's not on tiktok?

 

[Astrid]

What's strange about it?

I'd hardly know where to start.
Could you imagine if you first heard it,
how it would sound? I can detail if you
wish but it seems so self evident

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Paradise lost is a book about the fall of the dark angels and the corruption of mankind. Some say it encourages sympathy for the devil. I disagree. I think/feel it shows the depravity of the fallen angels in their dealings with people. Specifically Adam and Eve in their uncorrupted state. The fall of Adam and Eve is where the loss of good, beautiful and true happened and where my sympathy lies.

What do you think?

I will offer a video of a Sunday school teacher who in my opinion does a great job covering this topic.

Well that is another to add to my list. I have been trying to read all the books that I should have read years ago.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It's a story that we Chinese find quite strange

All ancient and medieval religion is 'strange' ... and not just for the modern citizen of China.

 

[Astrid]

All ancient and medieval religion is 'strange' ... and not just for the modern citizen of China.

Who knew

ETA. Did I use the idiom right?

 

[Chesterton]

I'd hardly know where to start.
Could you imagine if you first heard it,
how it would sound? I can detail if you
wish but it seems so self evident

Yes I can imagine when I first heard it because I can recall the time when I first heard it. I don't recall that anything about it struck me as being strange though, at least not any stranger than non-fiction.

 

[Hans Blaster]

What's strange about it?

All the angles and demons. Such things do not manifest in one's ordinary life. (And I don't think they exist, but that's not the point.)

 

[public hermit]

Paradise lost is a book about the fall of the dark angels and the corruption of mankind. Some say it encourages sympathy for the devil. I disagree. I think/feel it shows the depravity of the fallen angels in their dealings with people. Specifically Adam and Eve in their uncorrupted state. The fall of Adam and Eve is where the loss of good, beautiful and true happened and where my sympathy lies.

What do you think?

I will offer a video of a Sunday school teacher who in my opinion does a great job covering this topic.

I consider it a sad attempt to offer an apologetic for original sin; it doesn't get God off the hook. Even in Augustine's account, which practically birthed the idea, God predestined the fall of the angels. Lots of bad theology has been informed by Paradise Lost. If you're going to get bad theology, at least read Augustine. You'll come across helpful stuff, too.

 

[J_B_]

I consider it a sad attempt to offer an apologetic for original sin; it doesn't get God off the hook. Even in Augustine's account, which practically birthed the idea, God predestined the fall of the angels. Lots of bad theology has been informed by Paradise Lost. If you're going to get bad theology, at least read Augustine. You'll come across helpful stuff, too.

What don't you like about Augustine?

 

[public hermit]

What don't you like about Augustine?

There's a lot I like about Augustine, believe me, but I reject the doctrine of original sin. Hey, you can't knock it out of the park all the time. It wouldn't matter but that notion has had an outsized influence on the understanding of western Christians. I can't speak for the EO.

 

[J_B_]

There's a lot I like about Augustine, believe me, but I reject the doctrine of original sin. Hey, you can't knock it out of the park all the time. It wouldn't matter but that notion has had an outsized influence on the understanding of western Christians. I can't speak for the EO.

That's too bad, but as you said (paraphrasing) no one's perfect. Being Lutheran (and Luther having been an Augustinian monk), the fingerprints of Augustine are all over the Reformation and the Confessional branches of Lutheranism down to this day. We accept original sin.

Reading City of God was one of those experiences where, in younger days, I thought I could do better than Augustine, and ended up being humbled instead.

 

[public hermit]

We accept original sin

Some of y'all do, yes, but not all of us.

Reading City of God was one of those experiences where, in younger days, I thought I could do better than Augustine, and ended up being humbled instead

You ended up accepting it; whether you're humble or not is a matter of debate. Let's ask your family if you're humble. Anyone can believe virtually anything. Humility is not a matter of intellectual assent.

 

[Chesterton]

All the angles and demons. Such things do not manifest in one's ordinary life. (And I don't think they exist, but that's not the point.)

You should come visit my workplace. Similar such beings manifest on a daily basis.

 

[J_B_]

Some of y'all do, yes, but not all of us.

As long as you're willing to have a discussion with me, we're good. Expound to your heart's content ... and then let me do the same.

You ended up accepting it; whether you're humble or not is a matter of debate. Let's ask your family if you're humble. Anyone can believe virtually anything. Humility is not a matter of intellectual assent.

Mmm. We need to separate what hath been mashed together here. It wouldn't surprise me if my family said I'm not humble. Whether I am or not is irrelevant to whether I can have a humbling experience ... and I did. I'm not sure you know me well enough to say otherwise. My ego got in the way and prevented my intellectual assent. Only when I learned to put my ego aside and read Augustine for what it was was I able to give that assent. It was a good lesson for me. I learned many more lessons about intellectual games in pursuit of my engineering and history endeavors. I used to enjoy such games, but now view them as too often childish.