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I feel the need to proclaim the truth. Fruit is evidence of saving faith.
Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance;
— Matthew 3:8
The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
— Matthew 3:10
So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits.
— Matthew 7:17-20
My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.
— John 15:8
And the evidence is fruit.So you are proclaiming truth, too bad your truth is not backed up by facts.
Not a single verse you posted states that if a believer does not bear fruit they are not a believer.
The only condition given by God to receive His free gift of Eternal Life is to believe/trust/have faith in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.
The book of James does.Not a single verse you posted states that if a believer does not bear fruit they are not a believer.
I agree (and so does Paul) …The only condition given by God to receive His free gift of Eternal Life is to believe/trust/have faith in The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life.
The book of James does.
James 2:14-17, 26 [NASB95]
14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for [their] body, what use is that? 17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, [being] by itself. ... 26 For just as the body without [the] spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
Respectfully, I do not think that you actually READ what I wrote but merely read enough to confirm your preformed opinions of what I believed … allowing you to wait to speak rather than listen from that point forward.So from your post, i am guessing you do not believe that when a person trust in The Messiah they cross over from death to life. That there is some unmentioned requirement from God that faith is actually not enough. A person must also bear fruit to actually receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.
From yours and others posting, that is my only conclusion.
Respectfully, I do not think that you actually READ what I wrote but merely read enough to confirm your preformed opinions of what I believed … allowing you to wait to speak rather than listen from that point forward.
Can a man experience the transformation of Ephesians 2:1-9 and NOT walk in Ephesians 2:10?
Can a man be drawn by the Father and transformed by the encounter with the Son and then continue to live a life as if nothing were different?
I believe that meeting God irreversibly changes a person. Where there is no change, there is every reason to question the honesty of the claim to be a “new creation”.
That is not SYNERGISM, rather it is EFFECTUAL MONERGISM (as compared to a Matthew 15:8 dead religion).
That is what makes studying the two middle soils important. People want to gloss over them quickly and say “all three are good soils and saved” or “all three are bad soils and not saved” … but neither glossing over accurately states what the actual Scripture states.
I abandoned Nihilism when God called me, so the Truth matters to me and you could not be more wrong thinking that I believe in a WORKS based salvation.
So for these people who insist on saying a person must have fruit or a changed life, etc... for a believer to be a real believer. From my observations they end up making John 3:16 and other verses of the same message, Saying: For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes and bears fruit or has a changed life, etc. in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
There are some passages that REALLY need to be studied in their context, but are typically yanked out as a stand-alone verse to support a predetermined position. I wanted to examine one of these and talk with other Christians about 3 questions …
So this is one of those “passages” that I had in mind (appearing in three Gospels) as both a parable and an explanation.
- What does it say? (Let’s read the ACTUAL WORDS.)
- What does it mean? (Setting aside presuppositions, and taking the whole context into account.)
- What does God expect us to do with this information? (The Holy Spirit did not inspire the writers to include that in scripture for no reason, so why is it still important to us based on #1 and #2 above.)
Matthew 13
3 And He spoke many things to them in parables, saying, “Behold, the sower went out to sow; 4 and as he sowed, some seeds fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate them up. 5 Others fell on the rocky places, where they did not have much soil; and immediately they sprang up, because they had no depth of soil. 6 But when the sun had risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. 7 Others fell [fn]among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them out. 8 And others fell on the good soil and *yielded a crop, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.
18 “Hear then the parable of the sower. 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road. 20 The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. 22 And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 23 And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”
Mark 4
3 “Listen to this! Behold, the sower went out to sow; 4 as he was sowing, some seed fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Other seed fell on the rocky ground where it did not have much soil; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of soil. 6 And after the sun had risen, it was scorched; and because it had no root, it withered away. 7 Other seed fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked it, and it yielded no crop. 8 Other seeds fell into the good soil, and as they grew up and increased, they yielded a crop and produced thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold.”
13 And He *said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How will you understand all the parables? 14 The sower sows the word. 15 These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them. 16 In a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; 17 and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they [fn]fall away. 18 And others are the ones on whom seed was sown among the thorns; these are the ones who have heard the word, 19 but the worries of the [fn]world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20 And those are the ones on whom seed was sown on the good soil; and they hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold.”
Luke 8
5 “The sower went out to sow his seed; and as he sowed, some fell beside the road, and it was trampled under foot and the birds of the air ate it up. 6 Other seed fell on rocky soil, and as soon as it grew up, it withered away, because it had no moisture. 7 Other seed fell among the thorns; and the thorns grew up with it and choked it out. 8 Other seed fell into the good soil, and grew up, and produced a crop a hundred times as great.” As He said these things, He would call out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
11 “Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. 12 Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. 14 The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.
So any thoughts?
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What people who say that " belief/faith/trust " must have a qualifier to be judged as real " belief/faith/trust "
They have created from The Bible the qualifier of, fruit bearing or as some say a changed life (which is the result of repentance) so actually they are adding the actions of repentance to " belief/faith/trust " in receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life.
So verses like John 3:16, etc...
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
So for these people who insist on saying a person must have fruit or a changed life, etc... for a believer to be a real believer. From my observations they end up making John 3:16 and other verses of the same message, Saying: For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes and bears fruit or has a changed life, etc. in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
I would argue that the parable is descriptive rather than prescriptive. We cannot change our hearts, so we need an outside influence. Much like fertile soil does.The point of the parable is for us to ask the question of our selves about which type of soil are we? Christ's teachings are full of references to the OT, so we should look of different types of soils in the OT and what we should do if we find that we are a particular type of soil.
You are ignoring scripture. I’ve already posted just some of the verses that talk about bearing fruit (not to mention the OP), but there’s more.
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
— John 10:27-28
Following is evidence.
“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
— John 14:15
Keeping His commandments is following. This is all in line with bearing fruit.
That’s fine. I don’t require a response.I no longer really care (or care to do back and forths with you) about your opinions. Like i said I am completely opposed to your theology and there is nothing more to say from me to you.
So you can in future post, quote my post, but more than likely i will not reply when it pertains to Eternal Life, losing salvation.
If I created any contradictions, then by all means please point them out. The content of a gift can itself be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to drive a Ferrari for an hour, where them doing the work of driving it does not detract from the fact that the opportunity to drive it was completely given to them as a gift, but rather that is the way to receive it. In a similar way, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus through expressing His nature (John 17:3), and I've already provided verses that show that God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience, though I can provide more if you'd like. It's not a difficult concept.
In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments, so why do you think that obediently relying on what he said does not have assurance? God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so to have faith in what God has instructed for how to enter eternal life is to have faith in God for eternal life, and for you to suggest that we have no assurance in obediently relying on what God has instructed is to deny the faithfulness of God, which means that what you are teaching is gospel of doubt.
And you can not see the contradiction, that keeping the Law is not faith.
Well i will just state one.
Over 15+ times in The Bible (New Testament) the only condition given to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. Is faith/belief/trust in The Messiah for Eternal Life.
But you focus on one area in Matthew that states eternal life is entered by keeping the Law.
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