Papacy...legitimate or not?

[<Follower>]

http://jmgainor.homestead.com/files/PU/PF/cld.htm

http://jmgainor.homestead.com/files/PU/PF/doco.htm

 

[ksen]

MOD HAT ON

This thread will be closed at the first sign of flaming.

MOD HAT OFF

 

[<Follower>]

The Donation of Constantine, Donatio Constantini, is a well-known fraud used by the papacy for more than 10 centuries to strengthen its position and power. Though it claims to have been granted by Constantine to Sylvester, bishop of Rome (314 - 335) it is believed to have actually been written between 750 and 800 A.D., at which time Stephen II (or III), bishop of Rome, sought the help of Frankish king Pepin III (the Short) against the Lombards, who were threatening to overtake all Italy. To enlist Pepin's help, Stephen crossed the Alps to Gaul, where he anointed Pepin and his sons, Charlemagne and Carloman, as kings. Pepin came to his aid and subdued the Lombards, taking from them what had previously been Byzantine territory. He then granted Stephen rule over this territory in a document known as the Donation of Pepin. This freed Rome from Byzantine control, and was the beginning of what became known as the papal states. This rule was granted to Stephen by Pepin, and confirmed by his son Charlemagne, on the basis of the forgery known as the Donation of Constantine.

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Interesting considering the years involved.

 

[<Follower>]

this one as well.

For centuries the Donation of Constantine was assumed by all to be genuine, and was used by the bishops of Rome to support their papal claims. It was proven false in 1440 by Lorenzo Valla in his Declamatio. Nevertheless, on the basis of the forged document, the papacy maintained a spiritual dictatorship over most of the Church until the Reformation, and a temporal control of the papal states until, finally, in 1870, the last of the territory was taken over by Italy. Only in 1929 did the Vatican formally relinquish their temporal claims in the Lateran Treaty, wherein they were granted sovereignty over 44 hectares (109 acres), now known as Vatican City, a miniscule amount of their former domain. They have yet to relinquish their spiritual claims.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Yes it is.

 

[statrei]

Legitimate for what? That is truly a strange question for one to ask.

 

[sttrattus]

I do not think a human can solve the problems from human race!

 

[sttrattus]

Even the pope!

 

[sttrattus]

And nostradamus was full of it, about the black pope!

 

[InnerPhyre]

Oh you're kidding....Ok here's how this will go

Protestant: NO!!!!1

Catholic: YES!!!

Protestant: You're an idol worshipper!

Catholic: You're a heretic!!!!!

*fight ensues*

*Thread closed 10 posts later*

 

[statrei]

I do not think a human can solve the problems from human race!

Only humans can solve the problems humans have caused.

 

[Peter]

Within Reformed practice there is usualy a teaching, or head, elder. This position could rightly be called a "pope." The head elder is the one who "speaks for the faith."
He instructs the congregation as to the proper understanding of scripture.

Pope is another word for Patriarch. A patriarch is one to whom every looks for guidence among the faithful.

BTW, how many living men can you name that carry the title of pope?

Peace.

Rdr. Peter