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OK, so how does that bear out in the data?How about increases in mental health issues. Suicides. Deaths from loneliness in isolation. Missed diagnoses from other diseases because people were too afraid to go to the doctor and/or hospital.
OK, so then this is off topic.To be clear, I don't think wearing masks is directly attributable to deaths
OK, so how does that bear out in the data?
Why haven't you shown the data for increases in suicides of deaths from loneliness or people not going to hospitals because of fear?
So you just assume???Surely you know much of this would be difficult to quantify, right? I mean, there is never going to be a chart showing the number of people who chose NOT to go to the hospital. How would one even begin to capture data like that?
We are currently looking at 1st world countries. NZ, Aus, Norway, Denmark, Finland. Why are you now spinning towards third world countries?What I have posted, you've completely ignored. Unfortunately, I can't provide you with nice tidy charts for this data. But I've posted multiple articles, talking about elderly dying in isolation from loneliness, people in third-world countries dying of hunger.
So you just assume???
You see that NZ had 4,000 excess deaths in 2022, you see, but choose to ignore that NZ had 4,000 Covid deaths in 2022 and instead just assume, without any supporting data, that the excess deaths is due to consequences of lockdowns rather than the actual covid deaths.
We are currently looking at 1st world countries. NZ, Aus, Norway, Denmark, Finland. Why are you now spinning towards third world countries?
3rd world countries mostly didn't do lockdowns,
didn't distribute masks,
don't even have much vaccines, or hospitals or even roads for that matter.
If you believe Sweden's do nothing approach is best, then you'd think that the 3rd world countries would have faired better than the 1st world countries.
But, well most of us, would think 3rd world countries will have devastatingly high covid tallies.
Still can't explain away the facts showing your previous post was incorrect, I see.Oh, the irony.
Don't you think it's important to consider opportunity costs? If deaths occur as a result of mitigation measures (and they did)
I'm not "implying" anything. I'm saying that in order to make many of these arguments, you have to ignore all-cause death rates.
I know it must feel bad to constantly have talking points taken apart by pointing out the simple factual issues with them, but that doesn't mean pointing out those facts is wrong. If it really is that upsetting, perhaps take more care in evaluating them before posting.It would be nice if you actually engaged in the discussion instead of constantly casting aspersions, which is seemingly the only way you know how to discuss anything.
Here you go politicizing the discussion again.
I can't help but think if there were any reasonable objections to them we'd be reading those rather than these lame attempts at personal jabs.Your babbling attempts at psychoanalyses are always pure comedy gold.
I noticed how you didn't address the salient point about the problem of survivor bias in the video and how it can artificially increase the apparent efficacy of the vaccine.
Uh huh. Still can't explain how the spike in death rates in Sweden shows that their response worked, I see.I guess it's just easier to make flippant, snarky comments than it is to have rational, objective discussions.
People like to feel special. What better way to do that than think they've got some sort of special knowledge learned off of youtube videos that the world's experts have somehow missed?But what I struggle with is to see how common people in mass in USA go along with this.
There might be a reason : U.S. Suicides Declined Over All in 2020 but May Have Risen Among People of Color (Published 2021)OK, so how does that bear out in the data?
Why haven't you shown the data for increases in suicides of deaths
Can't help but notice how differently maybes are treated in this discussion. When it is masking, if there's any uncertainty it means the use of masks was obviously bad.Dr. Fauci in the New York Times interview yesterday:
"From a broad public-health standpoint, at the population level, masks work at the margins — maybe 10 percent."Dr. Fauci Looks Back: ‘Something Clearly Went Wrong’ (Published 2023)
In his most extensive interview yet, Anthony Fauci wrestles with the hard lessons of the pandemic — and the decisions that will define his legacy.www.nytimes.com
Yes, I'm starting to see this.People like to feel special. What better way to do that than think they've got some sort of special knowledge learned off of youtube videos that the world's experts have somehow missed?
When our excess deaths are 4K and our covid deaths are 4K, where do the suicides and the fear of going to hospital fit in?The excess deaths are a consequence of both.
Didn't you just post graphs showing that death rates in countries which used mitigation measures increased as those measures were phased out?
I know it must feel bad to constantly have talking points taken apart by pointing out the simple factual issues with them,
I can't help but think if there were any reasonable objections to them we'd be reading those rather than these lame attempts at personal jabs.
Can't help but notice how differently maybes are treated in this discussion. When it is masking, if there's any uncertainty it means the use of masks was obviously bad.
These people think they are more intelligent than everyone else, including the experts, they think they are more researched.
When they find official articles from experts, they disregard them,
somehow thinking the experts are trying to fool them, because they somehow think the experts are trying to control the population or perhaps create chaos and destroy "America".
So instead they gravitate to articles that say masks are bad, social distancing bad.
They go to data that shows excess deaths are 4K and Covid deaths are 4K and somehow decide that the excess deaths are due to suicides or fear from going to hospitals rather than Covid.
It boggles my mind. I would have thought, of course you have some fringe people who are caught up in conspiracy thinking. But in USA it isn't just some, it seems to be around 100 million or so people. It doesn't help that people on the political right in USA think Fox News is a news or journalistic media outlet. Fox News opinions are crackpot fringe and really shouldn't have anywhere near the audience numbers they have. And it doesn't help that many Republican politicians peddle this nonsense too.
When our excess deaths are 4K and our covid deaths are 4K, where do the suicides and the fear of going to hospital fit in?
There is very little scope for anything significant other than the Covid deaths.
And if something else were at play, why assume suicides? why assume fear of getting hospital treatment? Why not assume under counting of covid deaths?
Anyway, since our excess deaths are pretty much the same as our covid deaths, it seems to me that NZ is doing a pretty good job of keeping track of Covid deaths. I think third world countries will be grossly under reporting as they don't have the capability to test for covid so much.
Still can't explain how the spike in death rates in Sweden shows that their response worked, I see.
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