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Packaged Opinions

SwirlingEd

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Been a while since I've posted, but I'm interested to get some feedback on this article if anyone has a minute. It has to do with how Christians (in the U.S, at least) "package" their opinions based on what political party they belong to.

http://www.halfwritings.com/2008/04/29/advocate/

Please feel free to drop by and let me know what you think.

Thanks,
SwirlyEd.
 

plmarquette

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some folks hate the whites, who hate the blacks, who hate the klan....

most of us hate anything we don't understand .... kris kristopherson

if you have nerve enough to speak out on a topic, it might be in your best interest to do a little research first....

many times people think we are nuts, but when we open our mouths, we make the case for them ....

much of what we respond to are misunderstandings, misquotes, misconceptions, half truths, and inuendos.... none of which have much to do with the truth ...
 
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Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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Gah ... it recognizes itself as a happily card-carrying owner of the Enlightened East Coast/ West Coast Lib Package. Or a reasonable facsimile thereof ...
... capital punishment is wrong [...] abortion is okay, global warming is real, homosexuality is natural, Bill O’Reilly is insane, big business is all bad, Iraq was a huge mistake (we didn’t care AT ALL about those poor Iraqis. FREE OIL!!!), there were NEVER any weapons of mass destruction, and George Bush is the dumbest man alive.
Maybe not 100% verbatim but yeah, pretty durned close. ^_^
Only difference? It does not believe in abolishing capital punishment. Just on tightening the freaking justice system so people don't get executed over technicalities or underhanded deals made by equally corrupt "good guy" white-hat poseurs profiteering off punishment. Not an ideal solution but this bes not an ideal world and like war, death penalty should be a measure of last resort for the worst of the worst. And only if we bes prepared to help them die well.
 
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SwirlingEd

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some folks hate the whites, who hate the blacks, who hate the klan....

most of us hate anything we don't understand .... kris kristopherson

if you have nerve enough to speak out on a topic, it might be in your best interest to do a little research first....

many times people think we are nuts, but when we open our mouths, we make the case for them ....

much of what we respond to are misunderstandings, misquotes, misconceptions, half truths, and inuendos.... none of which have much to do with the truth ...

Not quite sure whether you.... hmm - just not quite sure, but thanks for commenting nonetheless... ;)
 
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LovebirdsFlying

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» Truth or Faith. Ramblings

Advocate.

04.29.08 | 7 Comments
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As in devil’s advocate.
I’ve decided that I need to give up trying to explain my opinions, beliefs, and thought processes; I should just confess that I am inclined to disagree with you in general. Don’t get me wrong - I do have opinions, but my most dominant opinion is that you should be willing to question your opinions.​
istock-tugowarxsmall.jpg
I think we all develop opinions for dumb reasons. There is usually an equation involved. Something like this:​
A=B and B=C, so A=C
I support you, you support him, therefore I support him. Something like that. Opinion by association. Opinion as a package deal. It’s sort of like a package you choose from Dish Network. Yeah, there may be some channels you don’t really want, but you’ll take them because they are part of a package that contains a lot of things you do want.
Let’s take politics, for example.
I know that if you believe that capital punishment is wrong, then you also believe that abortion is okay, global warming is real, homosexuality is natural, Bill O’Reilly is insane, big business is all bad, Iraq was a huge mistake (we didn’t care AT ALL about those poor Iraqis. FREE OIL!!!), there were NEVER any weapons of mass destruction, and George Bush is the dumbest man alive.
me=close to this, but not all-or-nothing thinking​
 
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DailyBlessings

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I think most people who frequent WWMC do so because we tend not to fit in packages very well.

As a resident of the West Coast, I would painfully point out that we are hardly uniform in viewpoint enough to have a package named after us. We're on like our hundredth Republican governor- and that's after the one before last declared martial law, gassed his own citizens for planting trees, and called it all necessary to stop the advance of the commies.
 
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Speculative

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I see two reasons for this.

First is simple peer pressure. Within the evangelical Christian context, there is a very strong "encouragement", if you will, to identify with the far-right wing of the Republican party. People have left churches I've been in because they were "too Republican" and conservative pastors and congregants routinely praise GOP politicians and criticize Democrats by name, from the pulpit and the head of Sunday school classes.

The clear message given is: "If you are not a Republican, you are not a Christian". You can see verification of this right here on Christianforums where you see posts making ridiculous claims like "Obama is the anti-Christ" and "John McCain is a liberal." (Interestingly they only criticize GOP politicians when they are not far enough to the ultra-right)

Placed in this environment, many will want to fit in by adopting the positions of their peers. Positions in church leadership and the congregational social pecking-order depend upon it, so people go along with the group-think to avoid ostracization.

Of course, a similar dynamic exists amongst more moderate Christians, but they aren't nearly as strident or punitive, in my experience.

Secondly, one may adopt the group opinion for the purpose of coalition building.

For example, I may be interested in working to correct the many abuses of the American corporate culture. I may quickly find that many who share similar interests also are interested in, say, reproductive rights. Now, I may have little interest in the women's rights movement, but I may adopt some of their opinions as a quid pro quo because these same people are also helping me in a cause I care about and I don't want to jeopardize that cause by being contrary to their opinions.
 
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Izdaari Eristikon

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First is simple peer pressure. Within the evangelical Christian context, there is a very strong "encouragement", if you will, to identify with the far-right wing of the Republican party. People have left churches I've been in because they were "too Republican" and conservative pastors and congregants routinely praise GOP politicians and criticize Democrats by name, from the pulpit and the head of Sunday school classes.

The clear message given is: "If you are not a Republican, you are not a Christian". You can see verification of this right here on Christianforums where you see posts making ridiculous claims like "Obama is the anti-Christ" and "John McCain is a liberal." (Interestingly they only criticize GOP politicians when they are not far enough to the ultra-right)

Placed in this environment, many will want to fit in by adopting the positions of their peers. Positions in church leadership and the congregational social pecking-order depend upon it, so people go along with the group-think to avoid ostracization.
I'm sure that happens, and I'm heard a number of stories about it here. But it's foreign to my own experience. I've been part of the "evangelical Christian context" for a little over a year, when I began attending a medium-sized Assemblies of God church. (I'm still going there, and in fact, I liked it so much I became a member, something I've never done with any other church.)

Though my church is considered conservative evangelical (if not fundamentalist) and Pentecostal, I've never heard a word about politics from the pulpit, and seldom from any of the congregation in conversation. Not that they don't have political opinions. I've had political talks with some of them, but so far I haven't detected any political 'group think'.

My own politics are neolibertarian, and would definitely clash with the typical evangelical social conservatism. If politics had been a big thing at my church, I'm sure I wouldn't have stayed.
 
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Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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I don't come remotely close to fitting either package. Is there a package for charismissional Christians who are neolibertarians? I'll take that one.

WOW Izdaari. Moriah bes "charismissional" as well. That bes some powerful stuff on that link. It has been thinking along these lines very much lately so thanks for giving it a name.

This bes awesome!
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Understanding this aspect of missional affects evangelism because rather than offering salvation as a free pass from hell, we offer to people the freedom and peace that is available through Christ, introducing them to the kingdom now, to the rule and reign of God in their life.[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Long-time believers sometimes forget the despair and hopelessness that people live with, and that, unbeknownst to them, they are living under a tyrannical rule - a rule that has produced bondage and broken lives. They need more than the promise of heaven, they need hope for this life, to be healed and set free.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Believers themselves often do not apprehend the wholeness that is available as an ongoing work of salvation and restoration in their lives. We live with crippled areas of our hearts that could be healed and besetting sins that we could be delivered from, either because we do not know that there is greater grace available to us, or we are afraid to trust the broken areas of our lives to the Father.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]God has a big-picture plan for the reconciliation of all of creation. However, in the midst of that, there is also a very real plan for our personal healing and deliverance. Healing and deliverance is a part of our ongoing salvation, of being restored to the wholeness that God intended for us.[/FONT]
from A Missional View of Healing and Deliverance.

Other articles on that page bes good too.
 
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Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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First is simple peer pressure. Within the evangelical Christian context, there is a very strong "encouragement", if you will, to identify with the far-right wing of the Republican party. People have left churches I've been in because they were "too Republican" and conservative pastors and congregants routinely praise GOP politicians and criticize Democrats by name, from the pulpit and the head of Sunday school classes.

The clear message given is: "If you are not a Republican, you are not a Christian". You can see verification of this right here on Christianforums where you see posts making ridiculous claims like "Obama is the anti-Christ" and "John McCain is a liberal." (Interestingly they only criticize GOP politicians when they are not far enough to the ultra-right)

Placed in this environment, many will want to fit in by adopting the positions of their peers. Positions in church leadership and the congregational social pecking-order depend upon it, so people go along with the group-think to avoid ostracization.
You hit the proverbial nail smack on its literal head.
 
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Protinus

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I see two reasons for this.

First is simple peer pressure. Within the evangelical Christian context, there is a very strong "encouragement", if you will, to identify with the far-right wing of the Republican party. People have left churches I've been in because they were "too Republican" and conservative pastors and congregants routinely praise GOP politicians and criticize Democrats by name, from the pulpit and the head of Sunday school classes.

The clear message given is: "If you are not a Republican, you are not a Christian". You can see verification of this right here on Christianforums where you see posts making ridiculous claims like "Obama is the anti-Christ" and "John McCain is a liberal." (Interestingly they only criticize GOP politicians when they are not far enough to the ultra-right)

Placed in this environment, many will want to fit in by adopting the positions of their peers. Positions in church leadership and the congregational social pecking-order depend upon it, so people go along with the group-think to avoid ostracization.

Of course, a similar dynamic exists amongst more moderate Christians, but they aren't nearly as strident or punitive, in my experience.

Secondly, one may adopt the group opinion for the purpose of coalition building.

For example, I may be interested in working to correct the many abuses of the American corporate culture. I may quickly find that many who share similar interests also are interested in, say, reproductive rights. Now, I may have little interest in the women's rights movement, but I may adopt some of their opinions as a quid pro quo because these same people are also helping me in a cause I care about and I don't want to jeopardize that cause by being contrary to their opinions.

I agree with Moriah, this is excellent and concise analysis. I could care a racoon's behind about what other's think about who I vote for...but I will slavishly try to influence others on issues that might align others to candidates that are favorable. I guess that I need to confess this more.:doh:
 
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Moriah_Conquering_Wind

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Protinus the difference being though that you seem to clearly recognize your own activity as strictly political in nature rather than attempting to influence your church and/or the Body at large that one type of politics alone bes "Christian".

Bes it right or wrong about that?
 
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LovebirdsFlying

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reminds me of that church i used to go to, that circulated pamphlets when bill clinton was running for office the first time--"a vote for bill clinton is a sin against God" and i thought, let's keep church and the white house separate.
 
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Protinus

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Protinus the difference being though that you seem to clearly recognize your own activity as strictly political in nature rather than attempting to influence your church and/or the Body at large that one type of politics alone bes "Christian".

Bes it right or wrong about that?

that is true granted...and my point may be irrelevant as a result. But I believe that I must have clear targets within my church...the political consequences are just the fruit or the detritus that is borne of that.

Bottomline, as you allude to, I think it is silly to align Christian faith with politics. That does not mean that my work in both areas might seemingly converge...at least in my mind's projection...but they are absolutely not tied together.
 
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Protinus

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you hit it, converge but not duplicate. :thumbsup:

I'm glad I got that across...I would offer that we must converge but we must not assimilate either. It sounds duplicitous or contrived but I am serious and I've been at this a long time.

Bless you LBF.
 
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