Outcome Based Education

[admtaylor]

The original idea of outcome based education was to give more control to the State to reign in the decaying of our education system. The idea was to focus on the weak points, set high standards and hold those people in charge accountable for failure. The emphasis has shifted since the '90's. Now in most cases, and probably soon all cases, the philosophy is to focus on the emotional well being of the student and how and what they learn about the society around them. The idea here is to create an "equal" enviroment for education thus causing success to prosper. The problem is that in this process the schools are teaching our children "morals" or the lack there of. Tolerance is no longer putting up with other peoples beliefs and life styles that are different than yours, but accepting and viewing as equal others beliefs and life styles. There is progressively no moral absolute and our schools are teaching our children this new "tolerance". What do you think about this? Do you think this will drastically affect not only our society but our ability to practice our faith? Do you think that within this new focus there could be a generation of people being developed that will be confused about what is right and wrong, people that aren't able to stand for anything because it's not their place to say or because they are just plain confused?

What are your thoughts?

 

[Philosoft]

What sorts of behaviors are they teaching them to "tolerate"? Murder, rape, pedophilia? Or the really bad ones, like homosexuality?

 

[Arikay]

Im curious, who said that it should be entirely the schools job to teach children morals?

Equality for all is required in a learning atmosophere, so that no kid feels left out, and slacks on their work.
If you want kids to be taught more complex morals than that, I propose that it would be mainly a parenting job.

Our schools are lacking in their ability to teach normal education, let alone, morals and education.

 

[admtaylor]

That was a loaded question wasn't it? Yes they are teaching "tolerance" of homosexuality, but they are also basing their curricula guidlines on not hurting students feelings or making them feel "inferior". I've seen this first hand, instead of grading the majority of the work that a student does they "check" it, then have the student redo those missed and then turn it in for a grade, sometimes more than once. They, the teachers, are told that making any statement about a childs performance negatively will affect the development of that child. So children are being given Satisfactory and Improvement grades instead of A, B, C, D or F. You can also see this in the selection of multiple "valadictorians" instead of one in high school graduation ceremonies. Their fear is that they will undermine the childs learning and development by pointing out areas of weakness in academia. I wasn't only speaking of the tolerance issue, although that is on my mind as well.

 

[admtaylor]

Im curious, who said that it should be entirely the schools job to teach children morals?

Equality for all is required in a learning atmosophere, so that no kid feels left out, and slacks on their work.
If you want kids to be taught more complex morals than that, I propose that it would be mainly a parenting job.

Our schools are lacking in their ability to teach normal education, let alone, morals and education.

I agree completely. I guess I wasn't clear enough on the emotional side of my statement which is expounded upon in my prior post. Sorry.

 

[admtaylor]

After review of my original post I guess I heavily weighted my statement on the morals issue. I guess that's where my mind went on it. The other is equally disturbing to me, because it doesn't hold students accountable for their performance, it just gives them more chances to get things right. You might say that this would produce learning, except that with my daughter it only produced an expectation that there would be at least one more chance to get it right and that actually got in the way of ours and the teachers ability to get over the difficulties she was having (which praise God she is now overcoming after a lot of hard work).

 

[Arikay]

I agree, although I dont really hold our current education system in too high of a regard.

School was often less about learning and more about Parroting back what the teacher wanted.

I can see the ability to correct it to be good for some classes and assignments, and bad for others.
The teacher acts more like a reviewer that then points out mistakes and allows the student to learn from them and fix them. However, this can also lead to sloppy writting as the teacher will just tell the student where to fix it, and they will still get an A. So it can also promote lazyness.
It has its good and bads, and thus needs to be used only in certain classes/papers.

That was a loaded question wasn't it? Yes they are teaching "tolerance" of homosexuality, but they are also basing their curricula guidlines on not hurting students feelings or making them feel "inferior". I've seen this first hand, instead of grading the majority of the work that a student does they "check" it, then have the student redo those missed and then turn it in for a grade, sometimes more than once. They, the teachers, are told that making any statement about a childs performance negatively will affect the development of that child. So children are being given Satisfactory and Improvement grades instead of A, B, C, D or F. You can also see this in the selection of multiple "valadictorians" instead of one in high school graduation ceremonies. Their fear is that they will undermine the childs learning and development by pointing out areas of weakness in academia. I wasn't only speaking of the tolerance issue, although that is on my mind as well.

 

[David Gould]

Personally, I do not think it matters too much. Students who want to learn will still be able to learn. Students that do not want to learn will still get out of doing so.

My sister is a primary school teacher. From what she has told me, by the time students get to school they have already been "trained" by their parents in one of the above two categories. Getting them out of the category 'does not want to learn' is next to impossible for a teacher who only sees them as one student out of 25, six hours a day, five days a week.

Parents need to take more responsibility for the way they teach their child in their first few years. That is the crucial time period.

 

[admtaylor]

Parents need to take more responsibility for the way they teach their child in their first few years. That is the crucial time period.

Parents need to be more resposible for their childs education all together. For the long haul. Especially in todays climate.

 

[David Gould]

I think the climate of the times is irrelevent, to be honest. My parents made sure I could read and write at a basic level before I started school, for example, and I think that this was very helpful for me. If all parents did this and at the same time instilled at least a mild thirst for learning in their children then the child would have a pretty good chance of getting the most out of their educational opportunities.

 

[JillLars]

I am going to school to be a highschool teacher. The tolerance that schools teach is not an "everything is ok" tolerance. Look at it from a sociological viewpoint and teach students to understand that although other people might be different from us, they're not different because they're stupid, or because they're evil, whatever differences there are, there are usually logical reasons behind them. In order to promote a safe environment in schools, this type of tolerance needs to be taught.

About the grading systems...what is school about? Well, its about learning the subject matter, but more importantly, its about learning how to learn. Throughout our entire lives we are learning new things, it may not be highschool geometry, but some of the same principles for learning geometry can be applied to learning work skills, assuming students learn how to learn. So, rather than just failing a student, you give them an oppurtunity to find out what they did wrong, and learn how to avoid that mistake in the future. My Grandpa taught highschool for 40+ years and he told me something I consider to be very wise, he told me "A lot of people thought I was crazy for this, but I never failed a student, if a student failed I took it as a reflection of my teaching ability, what could I have done differently to reach that student?" There are a lot of teachers out there who are more concerned with passing and failing students than preparing them for the "real world" Some students may be able to fail an assignment and automatically know why, and fix it next time, but most could use a helping hand, that's why teachers help students and allow them to correct their mistakes for partial credit. I don't think its a bad idea at all, I do however think teachers should make it very clear that the students should learn from their mistakes while they're in school cause in the "real world" they will not always be afforded that oppurtunity. Ok, end rant

 

[admtaylor]

Just out of curiosity where in the country are you attending school and where in the country did you live? I think it's relevant to the conversation.

 

[JillLars]

Me? I live in Minnesota, I'm attending Metropolitan State University in the Twin cities. I grew up in Cambridge, MN a small town about 45 min. north of the twin cities.

 

[admtaylor]

I ask this because I think the midwest, which I'm a resident of, is just now seeing the effects of this view. Just my opinion.

 

[JillLars]

I can only speak from my own experience because I don't have any stats in front of me, but to me, school is much more than just rote memorization of facts, it is something to prepare kids for the rest of their lives.

 

[admtaylor]

I can only speak from my own experience because I don't have any stats in front of me, but to me, school is much more than just rote memorization of facts, it is something to prepare kids for the rest of their lives.

I completely understand that it's just the approach that some are taking to it that I don't agree with. I wasn't in any way condoning the failing of students without effort to help them understand. But, I think that a fear of "damaging" someone by giving them a bad grade is leading our schools down a bad path.

 

[JillLars]

I agree admtaylor, although students need to know how to learn, and how to fix their mistakes, they also need to be able to handle constructive criticism. Can you imagine what would happen to a student who had never been criticised (constructively) when he got into the job market? What a mess that would be.

 

[admtaylor]

I agree admtaylor, although students need to know how to learn, and how to fix their mistakes, they also need to be able to handle constructive criticism. Can you imagine what would happen to a student who had never been criticised (constructively) when he got into the job market? What a mess that would be.

Exactly what I'm talking about. Not to mention the problems that could be created in their personal lives by this example.

 

[He put me back together]

Hi, folks. Jill, you seem like a nice person and I agree with what you said about letting children know where they have made a mistake...and frankly, with memories as a student, it'd be nice if those mistakes were discovered before the big test. Sure, when it's time to grade things, it's not fair to the kids who get it right the first time if you give kids who get things wrong a second chance, but kids should be given a chance to make their mistakes BEFORE the grades come along.

A word about "tolerance," though: No matter what a person's opinion is about any group or individual, is it truly right to teach another person's child that they are good OR evil, or neither? Is it truly right to use your influence as an adult, a teacher, to mold their moral opinions into society's desirables, instead of letting them choose on their own? Yes, as a teacher you must keep the peace, no matter what the reasons for hostilities are. But is brainwashing them from an undesirable mentality to a desirable mentality truly the way to go about it? As a teacher, it's become your responsibility to break up fights when they occur under your watch. That much is tolerable. But is it your duty to try to force the two boys (or girls) who are fighting to think in their minds that the other person is NOT "stupid?" Or should they find that out on their own? What if the other person really IS stupid? Is education the answer to bigotry, or is personal experience the key? Do teachers have the right to destroy bigotry by reprogramming bigots, or should they learn by their own judgement? Is national uniformity of opinion truly what we WANT when it comes to what is tolerant and what is not?

 

[JillLars]

Yeah, we just need to find a happy medium, unfortunately that is easier said than done.