other religion's mandates...

[Nadiine]

I read this [leaving anonymous] post on the boards about Mormonism -
I found this really restrictive for a church to do over a member:

No, I have not been excommunicated. I canceled my membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints a while back and I just got the letter yesterday saying that I had my membership canceled. This is unfortunate as I still want to be a Mormon.
I didn't want to be one at the time that I wrote the letter though. So I have to go 6 months of being morally pure (meaning committing no major sins) and then my bishop will write a letter requesting me to be baptized and confirmed again. Then I have to go to a meeting with the high priests and stuff and they'll interview me to see if I am worthy of being baptized and confirmed again.
This is going to really suck. One of the rules that I have to follow is starting Sunday I am limimted to only 30 minutes on the computer per day. That is going to really suck. All well, it'll be worth it.

Is it just me, or does anyone have a problem with any elders invading your privacy like this?

 

[MrJim]

There is a place for accountability. And there is nothing wrong with congregations setting up guidelines for the members to follow. Trouble is when the guidelines become salvational requirements (I see this amongst some of the more conservative mennonite folks).

 

[A New Dawn]

There are other requirements in the LDS church that are salvational in nature. It is an on-going discussion whether that makes the LDS church a works-based religion.

But back to the OP, I know of other churches where the elders limit things (membership, ability to take communion, etc.) based on baptism or belief (beyond things found in the Nicene Creed, for example), etc. (I don't necessarily believe they are right, but when I was a member of one, I did. I'm glad God brought me out of that type of thinking.)

 

[Zecryphon]

I read this [leaving anonymous] post on the boards about Mormonism -
I found this really restrictive for a church to do over a member:


Is it just me, or does anyone have a problem with any elders invading your privacy like this?

How is it an invasion of privacy? Remember this person wanted out of the church at the time he wrote that letter. Now he doesn't want out, but he didn't do anything to either stop the letter or to inform the church of his current desire. The church isn't wrong here. They obviously have standards and practices that must be followed and fulfilled before a person can become a member. This guy is probably being treated in a similar way to how a new person seeking membership would be. This person's tasks may be more severe because he once was a member and made the choice to break membership with the church. Nadiine, what's going on here is church discipline. I know a lot of ND Christians don't like the concept of being held accountable by the church. They feel they should be able to come and go as they please. After all, they are the church, so what they say goes.

 

[Rhamiel]

hmmm, seems a little strict, but not unreasonable, reminds me of the kinda pennance people had to do in the Middle Ages

 

[Nadiine]

How is it an invasion of privacy? Remember this person wanted out of the church at the time he wrote that letter. Now he doesn't want out, but he didn't do anything to either stop the letter or to inform the church of his current desire. The church isn't wrong here. They obviously have standards and practices that must be followed and fulfilled before a person can become a member. This guy is probably being treated in a similar way to how a new person seeking membership would be. This person's tasks may be more severe because he once was a member and made the choice to break membership with the church. Nadiine, what's going on here is church discipline. I know a lot of ND Christians don't like the concept of being held accountable by the church. They feel they should be able to come and go as they please. After all, they are the church, so what they say goes.

K, when someone's told they can only spend 30 min. online?
I think that's invasive.

And this person also had an avatar just 2 days ago that was pro homosexual -
wouldn't a mormon church be a little more interested in that moral issue than how long they spend online? (maybe the church doesn't know?- or they don't care?)

 

[GQ Chris]

K, when someone's told they can only spend 30 min. online?
I think that's invasive.

And this person also had an avatar just 2 days ago that was pro homosexual -
wouldn't a mormon church be a little more interested in that moral issue than how long they spend online? (maybe the church doesn't know?- or they don't care?)

Similar to the type of control that JW's want to have on their members. I agree, it is invasive.. I mean what other details of a person's life is not open for scrutiny, how much time they spend in the bathroom, or at the mall, or how much sweets they eat..

 

[Zecryphon]

Most likely the church doesn't know about that. Or if they do, maybe the 30 minutes online thing is part of his punishment for such a view. I don't know where his particular church stands on that issue and I'm fairly certain that his church doesn't know about his time or his activities on this website.

 

[desmalia]

I read this [leaving anonymous] post on the boards about Mormonism -
I found this really restrictive for a church to do over a member:


Is it just me, or does anyone have a problem with any elders invading your privacy like this?

Actually, compared to many testimonies I've heard from people who walked away from Mormonism, he got off very easy.

As far as invading privacy, I'd like to see Christian leadership get much more involved with individuals who fall away in sin. Not in the controlling way that the cults do it, but with a genuine desire and effort to come along side the individual. We really don't see enough of that these days.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Yeah, the LDS church is invasive and authoritarian. I've had several good Mormon friends, so I've learned all about that from them. That kind of behavior is more cult-like than God-like, and that's additional evidence against it.

 

[Nadiine]

Most likely the church doesn't know about that. Or if they do, maybe the 30 minutes online thing is part of his punishment for such a view. I don't know where his particular church stands on that issue and I'm fairly certain that his church doesn't know about his time or his activities on this website.

ya,... so I wondered if the poster was telling them stuff about online habits, but "forgotten" to maybe mention the moral beliefs?

I wasn't so much wanting to go after the poster becuz I don't want to engage in speculation to make judgments (I wouldn't want it done to me either) - I was more shocked by the control over personal activity.

When I think of church discipline, I think of being talked to by an elder about an open sin I have going on, or if I did something out of line in church. Church discipline could be any number of things like asking me to change something I was doing at church, or whatever - & possibly a warning that something had to stop or I'd have to step down from a position I mite of held....
Or I remember one week in church one day, a man sat in the opposite aisle right across from us & during a song or the sermon (forget now), he took his shoes off & started kneeling on the floor with his hands in the air & being a spectacle.

Someone from the staff tapped him on the shoulder & asked him to go out into the foyer. Thankfully he got his stuff & went with them out to the back. Kinda creepy.
That's what I envision discipline to be like. Not organizing my home life and how long I do something for a specified amount of time.

I haven't had to be disciplined in church so I just don't know how it works. I'd probly dislike it, but if it was reasonable & fair, I don't see a problem with using it.

 

[Zecryphon]

Well, I think what we have to remember here and what makes this case, special if you will, is that THIS is what this person wanted. Six months ago, they wanted out of the LDS and now they're upset that they're out of the LDS. Leaving a church is not a decision that one rushes into. In this case, I don't think this person rushed into it either as they took the time to sit down and knowngly and willfully write a letter telling the church why they wanted to cancel their membership to the LDS. Now in your church, you actually removed a person from a service because he had the audacity to remove his shoes, kneel and worship Jesus? Why? Was he audibly disrupting the service? Did his feet really stink? Kneeling during a service is not a bad thing, for some people that's how they confess their sins to the Lord and for some people that's how they pray. I'm actually surprised an ND church removed somebody from service, simply because, based on the few details you've provided here, they were different.

 

[MrJim]

Did his feet really stink? Kneeling during a service is not a bad thing, for some people that's how they confess their sins to the Lord and for some people that's how they pray. I'm actually surprised an ND church removed somebody from service, simply because, based on the few details you've provided here, they were different.

I think they later found it was a wayfaring Lutheran and it was a "fisk" stink, not a "feet" stink...

 

[Nadiine]

Well, I think what we have to remember here and what makes this case, special if you will, is that THIS is what this person wanted. Six months ago, they wanted out of the LDS and now they're upset that they're out of the LDS. Leaving a church is not a decision that one rushes into. In this case, I don't think this person rushed into it either as they took the time to sit down and knowngly and willfully write a letter telling the church why they wanted to cancel their membership to the LDS. Now in your church, you actually removed a person from a service because he had the audacity to remove his shoes, kneel and worship Jesus? Why? Was he audibly disrupting the service? Did his feet really stink? Kneeling during a service is not a bad thing, for some people that's how they confess their sins to the Lord and for some people that's how they pray. I'm actually surprised an ND church removed somebody from service, simply because, based on the few details you've provided here, they were different.

He was acting "ticky" when he came in... very fidgity and nervous.
I was a little creeped out by him already. Some people just exude that.
He mite of had some disorder or was on meds or something? I dunno.

He was acting dissruptive a little before that - just distracting people & it was getting more lively. That's how I would explain it.
And he came in a bit late too from what I remember? (not positive on that).

I don't know that the Ushers knew him from another service? Or he had made an ordeal in the parking lot before or what.
I can't judge anything based on no information. I don't think people should be disorderly & dissruptive either; it affects others.
Plus how would a new visitor feel if he got wierder & nobody dealt with it?
I wouldn't come back personally.

Lots of variables before making judgments in that instance.

But I agree, you don't just remove yourself from a church & then ask to be reinstated so easily. I wouldn't of asked to be removed in the first place if I had that much willingness to jump thru the 50 hoops to get back in.
No wonder I don't do memberships

 

[Nadiine]

I think they later found it was a wayfaring Lutheran and it was a "fisk" stink, not a "feet" stink...

 

[GQ Chris]

these "elders" are Nuts, I would give 'em a piece of my mind.

 

[GQ Chris]

I dated a hot mormon chic for a while, but she had two big Wammies against her.

Joseph Smith, and the fact that she subscribed faithfully to liberalism.

 

[GQ Chris]

I found out firsthand why a Christian should not be unequally yoked. I skipped out on Wednesday night bible study gladly just so I could be with her.

 

[porterross]

Excommunication is the right of the church; however, it should leave open repentance and forgiveness to the excommunicated. Personally, I wish more pastors took their call to examine their sheep more seriously.

The LDS functions more like one big family with few secrets allowed and public admonishment seems to carry some value of redemption in their eyes. I know of one young man who had to stand up before the congregation and be chastised (and who knows what else) for committing a sin with a girl. Poor kid!

 

[Rhamiel]

Porterross

Excommunication is the right of the church; however, it should leave open repentance and forgiveness to the excommunicated. Personally, I wish more pastors took their call to examine their sheep more seriously.

I do not know of any Christian Church or denomination who does not leave the door open for the excommunicated person to repent and enter the flock yet agian