Orthodox Wanderer

Prodigal7 said:

To my way of thinking, we are entering into a perilous time. Europe is in a demographic spiral. Secularism controls Europe. I think Christianity is entering a time where it will be tested again.

Eastern Orthodoxy has already been through the crucible of communism and also functioning under Islamic rule. It has shown it can survive the harshest of circumstances.

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Orthodoxy is "experienced" in living with persecutions. I think the Protestants and the Roman Catholics may freak out a little bit.

Either way, we won't know what has happened until it is too late.

Prodigal,

If you were baptised in the Eastern Orthodox Church, you were Christmated at that same time.

I agree with you about the Eucharist. It is food for us that we all need very much.

EmperorConstantine said:

Orthodoxy is "experienced" in living with persecutions. I think the Protestants and the Roman Catholics may freak out a little bit.

Either way, we won't know what has happened until it is too late.

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Like the Catholics in Poland and Hungary or the Christians who are mostly protestant in China? I think enduring persecution depends more on the person. I think Catholic and most protestant forms of CHrisitanity (apart from the Wealth Gospel bunch) believe persecution is a necessary part of the faith).

Prod7, I read this with great interest. I am glad to hear about your positive experiences so far!

One note: a few times you've mentioned being a 'practicing' Orthodox. Orthodoxy implies Orthopraxis which, of course, has varying degrees of severity. We do what we each can and do so (as Jesus said) in secret. And so we fast and pray to the Father in secret. But there are rubrics, there are ways to be Orthodox. That is to said that there is the Way, the Truth, and the Life: Jesus Christ.
So to say 'practicing' is somewhat redundant and to be 'non-practicing' would be better described as apostacy, of sorts. The Church is so strange.... you know in the early Church there were controversies about letting the various 'apostates' back in? Tertullian wrote about this at length - he struggled in the Church of Africa to find the mercy of our Savior, but was always unsure about all the people who aposticized under torture....
Orthodoxy eventually won out, proclaiming that the Lord is all-merciful, and he receives all penitents, regardless of the severity of the penance of each.

and so we pray For Thou art a merciful God, and unto Thee to we ascribe glory, to the Father, to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages.
Amen!

Prodigal7 said:

I was supposed to meet the Priest today but he called me and said he needed to reschedule. He had caught a case of the flu. I have to admit I was dissapointed. I had about five books I was going to bring with me to the meeting.

I wasn't going to try to bombard the priest with questions but most of what I have learned is from books.

The pieces of the puzzle are starting to fit together. My Uncle goes to an Antiochian Orthodox Church. My Uncle is Ukranian though and not from the middle east. I can see, it really doesn't matter. There is a Serbian Orthodox church about ten minutes from me but I've already started communicating with the OCA church about an hour away.

I noticed how the Church of Antioch is mentioned all over the place in the book of Acts. This was previously invisible to me. I had no awareness at all of the four original churches. Also I didn't tie in Orthodoxy to all of Pauls trips to Greece. It went straight over my head.

Acts 11:25
And when he found him he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabus and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

I went digging through the closet again and found another Orthodox book I was given about twenty years ago. I didn't find the book I was looking for. I had a nice little copy of the "Divine Liturgy" which seems to have disappeared.

I wondered if it was some kind of sign that the meeting got rescheduled but I don't think it is. My last direct contact with a priest was about fifteen years ago. I can wait a few more days.

I spent some time reading about the "great schism". It's weird with all this reading, a thousand years ago is seeming more relevant. I used to think, "Why should I care about old history so long ago??".

That's my update for now.

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Priests are human too and they become sick.

Have you been to a Divine Liturgy lately?

Aria said:

Priests are human too and they become sick.

Have you been to a Divine Liturgy lately?

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I think he was just expressing that he was disappointed that this had to happen, not that the priest decided should have stuck it out for him lol.

Prodigal: It's nice that you have a parish so close to you, even if it's not the one you have chosen to start your jouney back home with. It can be nice to have that parish on sundays when you wake up later than intended, when there are special weekday services and such. You may even find yourself feeling very comfortable with it in the future. I started going to a parish 50 min from my house when I first became Orthodox. This was best for me at the time, and it theoretically could ahve been the best for me forever. But, changes came about at my old parish and the at the local parish and in my personal life and now I go to a parish about 5 min (tops) from my house.

Just curious, how are things going with your current (non-Orthodox) parish. I am totally not pressuring you to stop going there so soon, I'm just curious if you have spoken about it to anyone there and how you feel when you go there? These are very personal questions, so feel free to just ignore them and I'll assume now's not the time to talk about it.

John

Still reading brother!

Thanks for the updates!

Prodigal7,

I've zoomed through this thread and will go back to re-read some of the responses, but your story is so similar to mine that I had to get in on this. I do apologize in advance if--in my haste-- I'm repeating something another has already posted. I, too, was baptized Orthodox as an infant, am a single father (with a teenager), fell away from the church (for about 30 years) and Christianity (instead of exploring Buddhism, I related more to agnostics) and came back to the faith just over a year ago.

A term I've heard used for us is "REverts" which I thought was pretty accurate. I truly do feel like I've done an about-face in returning to The Church. One thing's for sure, I knew I was home the day I walked back into an Orthodox Church (I wrote about it in the "Conversion" sticky).

I also have a son who had only been to Church of Christ services (while he was in foster care prior to my adopting him) to prepare for liturgical worship. You would be surprised at how open and accepting children can be. Do prepare yourself for questions he might have about what he sees, hears, or smells, or share the experience of finding the answers together. One of the first questions my son raised was "Why did you kiss that picture?" Some of the answers you may already know from what you've been reading or from prior experience. I did inform him that what he will experience is worship the way the Apostles have instructed us to worship. It did take awhile for my son to come around to understanding Orthodoxy, but the good news is that he will be baptized on June 23 with the knowledge that this is a "need" on his part, not just a "want" of mine.

PM me if you'd like. I already feel as if I know what you're going through. Hopefully with the guidance of your Spiritual Father and the Holy Spirit, transitioning back into the Orthodox Church will be as edifying for you as it has been for my family.

Welcome home. May God grant you many years.

Prodigal7 said:

Hello All,

I've hesitated to post in the Orthodox section because I haven't been a practicing member of the faith. I have been a practicing Christian though for about three years. I apologize in advance for the long post.

My last confession with an Orthodox priest was when I was 14. This was the priest at my Uncle's church who later got into trouble.

I was baptized Eastern Orthodox as an infant. I'm 39. My grandparents emmigrated from Ukraine. My grandfather died about 4 years ago. I miss him.

My Dad, who was Orthodox, married my mom who is Catholic. They got divorced when I was five. They made an agreement that if I was a boy I was to be Orthodox and if I was a girl I was to be Catholic.

As a sidenote of this spiritual confusion, it's tended to make me think that people are better off starting a family with people likeminded.

I've always liked the Orthodox faith. It's tough to really become immersed in it though when more than half the times I went to the church the masses were in a different language. I respect the ethnic part of it but it is also frustrating because as a kid I didn't get the culture. I got bits and pieces of it.

As a kid I went to Church maybe twice year, if that. To me, at that young age Orthodoxy was mysterious.

When I was 18 my uncle sent me some Orthodox Cathecism books. I read them. I made an attempt to start going to an Orthodox mission in California. At the time I was dealing with alcoholism and a host of other problems. My family never went to church. At that young age, without a firm understanding of the faith, their wasn't enough momentum to keep me going. I drifted.

For a while, I not only drifted from Orthodoxy but also Christianity as a whole. I contemplated becoming Buddhist. In my early 20s I did read the whole New Testament. For a time I was inspired. I chose to go alone rather than join a church however. I drifted back into a generalized conception of God.

Who could figure out Christianity I thought with the myriad of different denominations - each one saying they were right and everyone else is wrong?? Also, at the time I thought I had no hope to live the Christian life because I was failing miserably at trying to practice the morality.

I've been attending an Evengical church for about three years now. I learned what "membership" means. Showing up consistently changes the experience over time. It seems like no matter what you do - school, work life, church - showing up consistently is a big factor.

When I started attending the Evengelical Church I told the pastor I did not want to renounce my Orthodoxy. He said I didn't have to. They recognized my baptism. That church has been full of love and helped me through a sea of bitterness after my divorce. My divorce, which I resisted, turned my world upside down but in the end did drive me back towards God.

Attending a different church was a headtrip. I looked up their web page and saw that they followed the Nicene Creed. My dad head tripped on it a little bit but who was he to judge? He hasn't been to church in years. He didn't want me not to be Orthodox but he never goes himself. That was ridiculous to me, though I still love my father.

I thought about my grandparents. Did they sit down with a list of congregations and choose a church out of a book?? They went to the church of their land, which happened to be Orthodox. I thought that I'm choosing the church of my land.

Part of me does miss Orthodoxy though. I hung an icon on my wall.

I've had a strange journey. I bought a book written by an Orthodox monk back in 1990. I pulled the book off the shelf and started reading it. The monks name is Father John. The book has a lot of power and I like it. The idea of a "staretz", a monk singled out for holiness, is fascinating to me.

I went searching through the closet for those old books on Orthodoxy that my uncle sent me twenty years ago. I've been divorced. I've moved several times. Were they lost?? I lost so many things in that divorce. They were buried in a box. I still had them.

When my grandfather was in his late 70's and 80's I made the two hour trip to his house every Easter (Orthodox Easter). We would get up at night and make the long journey to Sacramento to a Russian Orthodox Church. To me the whole thing was very spiritual though I still didn't speak Russian. I would take my grandfather to the service, meditate on the icons, and contemplate Christ.

I did this for about ten years in a row. Now that he's gone I really miss it.

Because both my mom and step mom were Catholic I also have a respect for their faith. I've had a strange life with exposure to all three major branches of Christianity. When your mom is Catholic you end up getting a taste of that as well. She used to take me to the Catholic service and say "I don't care what your father says".

Lately I've been avidly reading the scriptures. Up to this point I've just said God isn't a politician and neither am I. At some point I will re-immerse into Orthodoxy. I have somewhat of a loyalty conflict because I like this church I currently attend.

An Orthodox church to me does seem more sacred. I like the idea of apostolic succession. It would be cool to sit down and have a no holds barred rap session with an Orthodox priest. I've been experimenting with the Jesus Prayer. I've always had an interest in the "mysterious" aspect of religion. I'm a stock broker by trade. My mind can race. Contemplative prayer is something that I'm finding helps me.

It's interesting because I have a loyalty to the faith of my birth but also, I can see, the Protestants aren't wrong on everything. The Protestants know their Bible and also the Protestant reformation needed to happen.

One part of Protestanism that I don't like is the lack of art work in the churches. Recently I read about how the painter of the icon is supposed to live a spiritual life.

The assistant pastor at my church has some icons on the wall. I was surprised he had them and he was surprised that I knew what they were. I remember the old pastors look of surprise when he heard that my background was Eastern Orthodoxy. I guess it's not very common around here.

I'm not trying to sound like a judge of all churches. I'm no judge. I'm sincerely trying to practice a Christian life and still have an interest in the faith of my roots.

Peace to all.

Prodigal7

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Prodigal7, your post in a few of my threads here have been such a blessing.

i'm younger so i won't say i can relate but i just want to say thank you for sharing your story because i'm glad i'm not the only one that has a similiar experience in the faith...outside of divorce and such.

this past thursday when i sat with the priest, i felt i had a no hold bars session with the priest. i admitted to the priest that this was my last chance before i give up on church.

i asked questions and just listened to him talk about the church. he went on and on with explaining the church, the icons, Mary and such. i loved every minute of it. he apologized for going on and on and i said no it's ok, going on and on is a lot better than just answering a question and that be it.

i wasn't raised anything really. my dad was raised methodist and then became atheist and is now a Christian who attends the Luthern Church. my mother was raised Baptist but is now out of church completely and struggles with her faith. to which now the conclusion is more of the liberal side of Christianity. i know many of the spokesperson (i beg all of you to not respond solely to my response on this point if anyone responds) people cannot stand, but i have to admit, it was the one thing that saved my faith or saved the desire to keep on searching. thus here i am. as i admitted to the priest, i figure it's time to restart so why not go back to the beginnings?

when i was younger, i came to the faith through the pentecostal church. then it went to the friends church, then to a more calvinistic setting church (Reformed Congregationalist), back to the friends church, then back to the pentecostal church and then to various of churches ranging from just typical protestant types of churches to the more post-modern movement ministry an hour north of me. i find it ironic how the minister of that post-modern movement whom is a friend of mine as well, the ministry has basically disbanded into home cell groups and he himself has visited an Eastern Orthodox Church. i miss him seeing him as much as i used to. he struggles in his faith as well, but such a great man of God, and someone that is a peer of mine. (sorry didn't mean to get off-tracked )

now outside of the Friends Church and the post-modern movemnt ministry i was going to, i think my own spiritual life was lead to confusion. out of how many denominations and sects of specific denominations proclaiming truth above all other denominations, the conclusion was a fed up feeling with Christianity. the baggage of human beings passing judgement let alone to non-Christians but Christians themselves while contradicting every other body of believers' beliefs has, even still, lead to Christianity being like a distasteful bite of food in my mouth that i just want to spit out and get rid of because it is making me sick, which leads me to my next point.

i told the priest as well when he asked me the reasons why i'm interested into Orthodoxy is because(i worded it differently i believe but to address my point and reasoning i'll say it in other words for our conversation) how tired i am of believeing if it doesn't produce a human being that is striving to be godly and to be the best human being that i'm meant to be...as God created us. i told the priest that heaven and hell doesn't matter to me. that is all in God's hands and i want salvation now. 13 years of believeing has led me to a DUI, (i didn't tell the next part to Father Mark) adultery, irresponsible living and then i admitted to Father Mark, that the DUI was the wakeup call. i remember talking to my dad about my DUI because he was really concerned for me for awhile because of how he used to drink and how similiar i was becoming like how he was in the past, and i told him, "dad you don't know what it's like to be handcuffed for driving drunk when your suppossedly a "man of God"" (i said it in more crass language...my dad and i are really open with each other but i don't want to break the rules of CF.)

so i admitted next to the priest that for me, Protestantism hasn't lead me to good, holy living. it's always concerned for heaven or hell and not for the here and now, or at least that is how it seemed/seems to me and how i'm looking at the church in the hope that the church has powerful truth to offer that radically changes your life. if i'm to believe in the Trinity, Jesus, God and all that, it has to have powerful changing aspects to it beyond than just "believeing" in something.

the outcome of the discussion was actually me hating to leave. he talked openly to me, so kindly, humbly but affirming the Eastern Orthodox faith, so much grace and humility and it was so nice to shake hands with someone, look them in the eye and say "God Bless You". it's been YEARS since i have done that and for some reason it had a slight affect on me even still.

i hate thinking i can give advice to someone that is older than me. seems disresepctful and what life changing can a 25 year old give? but i advise to have a no holds bar discussion with a priest. if you do i sure hope it helps with all you've been through in your life and the church but i know for me it did wonders. to sit there and talk to someone who isn't passing judgement on you and just listen, affirm the church's tradition with peace, grace, kindness, joy and to just shake hands as he's truly a brother in Christ who is just a sinner like yourself trying to be the best man of God he can i must admit is something i have only experienced in the faith on rare occassions...and 99 percent of those times wasn't in a church to say the least.

God Bless you!

Let us know how the visit with Fr Andrew goes!

Xpycoctomos said:

Let us know how the visit with Fr Andrew goes!

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Indeed. I've only just come across this thread, but I must say that your posts are wonderful Prodigal. Our journeys have been different in detail (although with a certain similarity in 'tone' - losing the faith of your upbringing, atheism/agnosticism, dabbling in other religions and then an eventual return to Christianity and the Orthodox Church). In my case, though, I turned to my wife's family (or she turned to me - I procrastinated for so long I'm no longer exactly sure) as my own family are Protestant and RC, but nonetheless something about your story afects me personally. You will be in my prayers and I sincerely hope that your talk with the priest goes well. One thing I can say is, don't worry if your son distracts you. My children distract me at every Liturgy, and still I wouldn't have it any other way - often I learn some lesson about faith from their innocent and childish participation, their questions and their enthusiasm. The point is, the whole family is a small church for us. That's one of the things I love most about our faith.

In Christ,

James

P.S.
I note from the thread that your background appears to be Ukrainian and that you say your father was born in a refugee camp in Romania. Do you know where? I'm interested because my wife is from southern Bucovina (northern half now in the Ukraine) and her father is the son of a Red Army soldier who settled in Romania after WWII.

Prodigal7 said:

I met with Fr. Andrew today.

I was nervous. We had a good conversation and I relaxed as we talked. Normally I don't get nervous meeting new people. I still have reverence for priests so I guess I felt nervous. Part of me felt like a kid.

The meeting had power and depth. I have a lot to think about and contemplate. We covered a lot of ground.

My last ten or twenty trips to Orthodox Churches were all as guests of my family so it was easy to drift in and drift out unnoticed. It was good to sit as an adult and discuss things of substance. Many of my early conversations with a priest were as a child.

My next step is to visit the church and to continue my conversations. I appreciated that he didn't make me feel rushed. Matters of spiritual importance probably shouldn't be rushed. I will have more to say later. It was a big deal for me and I'm glad I did it.

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I think it is a big deal and I am so glad you are sharing about your experiences with us. I am so pleased with your progress in looking at returning to the Church.

I understand about feeling a bit nervous with the Priest. Sometimes I think certain Priests can see right through me. I am glad the Priest you are meeting with is a patient and wise man as you describe.

Prodigal7 said:

I met with Fr. Andrew today.

I was nervous. We had a good conversation and I relaxed as we talked. Normally I don't get nervous meeting new people. I still have reverence for priests so I guess I felt nervous. Part of me felt like a kid.

The meeting had power and depth. I have a lot to think about and contemplate. We covered a lot of ground.

My last ten or twenty trips to Orthodox Churches were all as guests of my family so it was easy to drift in and drift out unnoticed. It was good to sit as an adult and discuss things of substance. Many of my early conversations with a priest were as a child.

My next step is to visit the church and to continue my conversations. I appreciated that he didn't make me feel rushed. Matters of spiritual importance probably shouldn't be rushed. I will have more to say later. It was a big deal for me and I'm glad I did it.

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I did this exact same thing very soon after going back to church, and even admitted to the priest that my last "real" exposure to priests was as a child, so I do have a lot of respect for (and can even be intimidated by) priests. He admitted that he used to be that way, too. I asked him how he overcame this, to which he replied "I became one!"

I also had every intention of keeping my first meeting with our priest to an hour, but it ended up lasting nearly 2.5 hours, and never once did my priest make me feel as though I needed to hurry along. He even invited me to come meet with him again anytime. I was so surprised by this, knowing how busy priests can be and how many must be in need of his time and his counsel.

Like you, most of my knowledge of Orthodoxy was equal to that of a child, so I knew I had a long way to go (and still do) before I would understand why things are the way they are. I did take a deep breath, in almost a sigh of relief, when I realized that I do not have to know "everything." Some things cannot, and will not be revealed to us in this lifetime. As a father, I sometimes feel as if I owe it to my son to have all the answers. He is learning that I am just as human, and just as curious about many things in the world as he is. And he's learning from me how to search for answers.

It's so interesting to read about the steps you are taking to return to the faith. It's almost like reading about my REversion a year after it happened. Keep posting!

God bless you on this journey. I am so happy for you!