Original Sin

fiasps said:

As far as I know what Christians’ believe is that when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit – because of that sin entered into the world and every human child from the time of Adam until doomsday is born sinful and as such is destined to hell, all because of the sin of Adam and Eve.

I am asking the questions
Did Adam ask me before eating the fruit?
Did he ask you?
Were you consulted on this?
No he didn’t so we are not responsible and bear no blame or sin.

This does not sound like a just law to me because the bible says in Ezekiel 18:20
‘The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him’.

In other words the one who sins he shall be punished he shall die, if father Adam sinned then his offspring will not be made responsible for this sin. Every person is personally responsible for his/her actions. So there is no such thing as man inheriting sin.

Original sin does not make sense to me. How can I be expected to walk upright if I have been weighted down with sins before I have committed any? What right has God to expect us to walk upright if he already burdened us with sin - This is unjust

Farther Adam made a mistake. Mother Eve made a mistake. And they paid more than the full price. We have nothing to do with.

Please clarify?

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Hi, as it doesn't matter whether it's due to Adam and Eve's sin passed down, or our own sin.

As all are sinners it doesn't matter and Christians do vary as to whether it's due to Adam and Eve's sin that is passed down or not, but doesn't matter since we all sin perfectly fine without Adam and Eve's sin.

God desires we commit our life to Jesus and once we are in Jesus we strive to do as commanded. We all fail at this but we strive, depending on our walk and understanding, where we are at etc.

As to Adam and Eve sinning hence all born sinners;

I believe it's more of this kind of picture.

Say I am a parent and I have a child, my sin will be learned by the child. No doubt about it; the child learns from the parent; and when the child is older may stop doing some things or many things wrong which may have recieved from the parent; may not have even repeated sin learned or saw very much, but the now older child will still sin regardless.

But again doesn't matter, as we sin plenty enough.

It is not a matter of doing good and right if are not in Christ. I mean is good to always do good, is honorable, but does not bring salvation.

Salvation comes by committing one's life to Jesus and in Christ we are forgiven sin, and we strive as we grow to do right and good. Non Christians can of course also do right and good. In Christ we are now in the Kingdom of God, and in that we have spiritual blessings as are now in what the bible calls the church, which is the body of believers.

To note your parents did not ask you if you wanted to be born. I only say that due to your example of Adam and Eve not asking you.

Toss out the sin of Adam and Eve if it causes you a stumbing block keeping you from Jesus, as again all sin is what Jesus atoned for and forgiveness comes thru committing our lives to Jesus, meaning having faith in/surrendering our lives; and is a process we do daily, meaning it's a moment to moment, day by day walk with Jesus we have.

God did not burden any man with sin.

God became man (Jesus) to free us from the bondage to sin we commit, to forgive us and much more that we have in Jesus.

Blessings,
tapero

Each is responsible for their own sin.
We are not sinful by birth
Adam brought the sin-nature into the world
that is, a nature which chooses to sin.

Dear fiasps. This is the 3rd time, that I send you a reply. I believe the 1st 2 replies, disappeared. If you have read them, overlook this 3rd attempt. Adam and Eve were not banished from the Garden of Eden, because they ate the forbidden fruit, they were banished 1) because they ignored God`s loving advice, Not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge, and 2) once they had eaten the fruit, they knew the difference between Good, and Not Good. Their eyes were opened, and they were banned to Earth. Instead of repenting, they, and all who followed after, moved farher and farther away from God. We know the rest from the Bible. All human-kind inherited the genes from Adam and Eve, all became more selfish and wilful. In time Jesus came, He showed us how God is really, a loving Heavenly Father, who wants us back again. It is not eating the forbidden fruit only, which is the Original Sin, it is our selfish and self-willed nature which we have to learn to overcome. That is why we are on Earth, and we have years to learn, and most wonderful of all, we have Jesus to help and guide us. I say this humbly and with love, fiasps, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.

fiasps said:

every human child from the time of Adam until doomsday is born sinful and as such is destined to hell, all because of the sin of Adam and Eve.

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This is where the misunderstanding takes place. No one will go to hell for the sins of Adam and Eve. Hell is like prison, you are a law breaker, God is the judge, and he must sentence you to prison because of YOUR law breaking.

fiasps said:

I am asking the questions
Did Adam ask me before eating the fruit?
Did he ask you?
Were you consulted on this?
No he didn’t so we are not responsible and bear no blame or sin.

Click to expand...

Did my parents ask me before conceiving me?
Did they ask my brother?
Was I consulted on this?
Therefore I don't have the brown skin characteristic of all East Indians, the annoyingly thick facial hair, or an increased genetic risk for high cholesterol.

The problem, I think, is that you may not properly understand the nature of original sin. Sin is not merely a list of transgressions that you have committed against God. It is also an intrinsic nature that all humans possess. The sin nature is a propensity to act contrary to God's will, and to practice false religions that do not honor the Son of God. It would be meaningless for you to deny that you, me, and all other humans have a sin nature simply on the basis that you were not consulted about Adam's decision to rebel against his Lord. That humans are fallen and sinful is quite an apparent fact which generally doesn't require Biblical support (though the Bible plainly testifies to it). Denying that you have sin doesn't eliminate your need for Jesus Christ, and it doesn't make false religions any less impotent to save the human soul.

You say original sin doesn't make sense. Perhaps if you understand the purpose of it. The purpose of the universe's creation is to show God's glory. The cross is the single greatest way to show God's glory. The universe was created so that Jesus Christ would display God's love and glory through His propitiation on the cross. For Christ die for sin, there had to be sin.

In short, original sin was preordained and had to happen so that the cross would be needed.

fiasps said:

As far as I know what Christians’ believe is that when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit – because of that sin entered into the world and every human child from the time of Adam until doomsday is born sinful and as such is destined to hell, all because of the sin of Adam and Eve.

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Not "born sinful" but born with a sin nature. There is a difference.

"Original sin" is another man made doctrine of Roman Catholicism, not a Biblical teaching.

No he didn’t so we are not responsible and bear no blame or sin.

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You're not responsible for Adam's sin, but you're still responsible for your own sin.

In other words the one who sins he shall be punished he shall die, if father Adam sinned then his offspring will not be made responsible for this sin. Every person is personally responsible for his/her actions. So there is no such thing as man inheriting sin.

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I agree. There is no such thing as man inheriting sin. However, there is such a thing as man inheriting a sin nature.

Farther Adam made a mistake. Mother Eve made a mistake. And they paid more than the full price. We have nothing to do with.

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Just to clarify, they did not "make a mistake". They sinned.

fiasps said:

I agree with the bulk of your reply. But I dont think the sin nature is inherited rather God created humankind with a sin nature and gave us free will so that we can choose what we do and dont want to do.

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Romans 5-7 is very clear that God did not create us with a sin nature, but that we inherited a sin nature.

I'm just telling you what the Bible says. What you choose to do with it is up to you.

Like Lucifer we were perfect, until iniquity was found in us. Our human spirit has receptors that receive the same sin nature that came into Adam. It came into me at about age 4 or 5. I remember it well. It was the easily the most profound event in my life, even more than my later repentance. Scary then, scary now.

owg

fiasps said:

As far as I know what Christians’ believe is that when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit – because of that sin entered into the world and every human child from the time of Adam until doomsday is born sinful and as such is destined to hell, all because of the sin of Adam and Eve.

I am asking the questions
Did Adam ask me before eating the fruit?
Did he ask you?
Were you consulted on this?
No he didn’t so we are not responsible and bear no blame or sin.

This does not sound like a just law to me because the bible says in Ezekiel 18:20
‘The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him’.

In other words the one who sins he shall be punished he shall die, if father Adam sinned then his offspring will not be made responsible for this sin. Every person is personally responsible for his/her actions. So there is no such thing as man inheriting sin.

Original sin does not make sense to me. How can I be expected to walk upright if I have been weighted down with sins before I have committed any? What right has God to expect us to walk upright if he already burdened us with sin - This is unjust

Farther Adam made a mistake. Mother Eve made a mistake. And they paid more than the full price. We have nothing to do with.

Please clarify?

Click to expand...

What a shame that ancestral sin made it into Western Christian theology. It's not what the Church has always believed. This Augustinian concept isn't consistent with early Christian beliefs. We aren't born depraved.

Please read this Wikipedia page to gain a better idea of not only what sin is, but what the Church believes regarding it (as it presents things in a more understandable manner than I could): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Christian_theology

fiasps said:

...Original sin does not make sense to me....Please clarify?...

Click to expand...

It appears that "original sin' means something different to you than it does to the Catholic Church. I found the Catholic understanding to make much more sense.

Original Sin means that we are born into a state in which we are deprived of the original holiness and justice in which we were intended to exist. It does not mean that people are inherently bad and incapable of doing anything but evil, or that we are personally guilty of the sin of Adam.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church saysThe Jews teach that we have an inclination to do good (the yetzer hatov) and the inclination to do evil (the yetzer harah). God created Man with only the yetzer hatov, but in falling from grace Man acquired the yetzer harah.

What the Jews call the yetzer harah is what the Church calls "original sin".

Like somebody said: we are born in sin. So we are condemned for our own sin in which we were born.

If somebody used a few nuclear bombs and wiped out the world, all world would be wiped out (no matter whose fault it was). So we are born sinners no matter whose fault it was to make us "to be born that way".

But if you really want to know, (and this is not just a blame game), then God DOES give everybody a way out. He said: believe, and you will live. Believe, and you will be forgiven.

Somebody gave this example: if you were born into a destitute family and you were starving from lack of bread, would you be starting to play "blame games" and try to figure out whose fault it was that you were born into this family? OR are you going to try to find a way to get the bread you need?

And if a rich person out there is offering free bread simply for asking, and you, because of your pride, say: I don't need your charity. Is it that rich person's fault that you die from starvation? Or is it your own fault that you DID NOT ACCEPT the gift?
This is what happens with humanity today. God, because of his love, offers a way out, and people - don't accept it.


So whoever believes, does not perish, but has eternal life. And it's only pride and wickedness that stands in the way of receiving eternal life.

fiasps said:

As far as I know what Christians’ believe is that when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit – because of that sin entered into the world and every human child from the time of Adam until doomsday is born sinful and as such is destined to hell, all because of the sin of Adam and Eve.

I am asking the questions
Did Adam ask me before eating the fruit?
Did he ask you?
Were you consulted on this?
No he didn’t so we are not responsible and bear no blame or sin.

This does not sound like a just law to me because the bible says in Ezekiel 18:20
‘The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him’.

In other words the one who sins he shall be punished he shall die, if father Adam sinned then his offspring will not be made responsible for this sin. Every person is personally responsible for his/her actions. So there is no such thing as man inheriting sin.

Original sin does not make sense to me. How can I be expected to walk upright if I have been weighted down with sins before I have committed any? What right has God to expect us to walk upright if he already burdened us with sin - This is unjust

Farther Adam made a mistake. Mother Eve made a mistake. And they paid more than the full price. We have nothing to do with.

Please clarify?

Click to expand...

Clarify what?

You answered all of your own questions.

Please clarify why you asked questions and then gave your own answers and then asked for other people's answers to the questions you answered?

"Orginal sin," is a matter of fact. Just look around mankind. Even "Buddhists" battle the "human nature." It is the realization that "something" is wrong within us, that has come to be known as "original sin."

By the way, Adam did not repent. He blamed God for the chick. He didn't repent at all. Eve was at least honest and sorry for what she had done. Probably why, women are "inherently" nicer than men. Probably more than probable.

We are sons of Adam by nature. We are sons of God by adoption.

It all seems quite workable to me.

Then agian, I'm a Christian. Inheritably logical.

seashale76 said:

What a shame that ancestral sin made it into Western Christian theology. It's not what the Church has always believed. This Augustinian concept isn't consistent with early Christian beliefs. We aren't born depraved.

Please read this Wikipedia page to gain a better idea of not only what sin is, but what the Church believes regarding it (as it presents things in a more understandable manner than I could): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Christian_theology

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The "original Church" was not the Greek Orthodox Church.

It was the Messianic (Jewish) Orthodox Church first.

All else is secondary and tertiary etc., etc., etc., so on and so forth.

Polycarp_fan said:

The "original Church" was not the Greek Orthodox Church.

It was the Messianic (Jewish) Orthodox Church first.

All else is secondary and tertiary etc., etc., etc., so on and so forth.

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Hello, this is NOT a debate board where you are allowed to debate Christians. You can respond to the questions posed by the non-Christian OP, but you are not to respond to the views that other Christians espouse here. I don't agree with you, obviously. You are free to start a thread in apologetics though. But, if you want to go there I'll give you a quick response: The bible warns against Judaizing, the NT was written in Greek, most Jews spoke Greek at that time and not Hebrew, they were greatly influenced by the Greeks, and it ultimately doesn't matter who first became Christians b/c in Christ there is no Jew or Greek. Anyone who believes is grafted into Israel and are God's people which is Christ's Holy Church, there is only one Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

MOD HAT.

A reminder that this sub-forum is not for a debate, but for answering the OP.
http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=5775588

Thanks,
Edial
Moderator
Team Temperance