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Original Sin and Evolution

Archaeopteryx

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The doctrine of Original Sin and evolution are by far most likely the hardest ideas to reconcile in Christian theology. Evolutionary theory refutes the notion that Original Sin brought discord, death and chaos into an initially perfect creation of harmony and equilibrium.
French philosopher and priest Piere Teilhard di Chardin attempted to accommodate the two in the formulation of his theology and called the evil the "unavoidable by-product of a universe in course of unification in God."

How do we reconcile evolution and Original Sin? Or perhaps, if one accepts evolution as the underlying creative and formative process, how do we explain sin?
 

Archaeopteryx

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I don't think there is anything to reconcile ...

How does evolutionary theory refute this? I don't think it has anything to do with it.
Well, evolutionary theory portrays Original Sin as non-existent as it contends that discord, chaos and evil pre-date the existence of man AND is also necessary for progress. On the other hand, the notion of Original Sin holds that it was the first sin that brought discord, chaos and evil into the world. The two ideas oppose each other.
 
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pehkay

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Well, it is true that discord, chaos and evil pre-date the existence of man, since Lucifer rebelled and all creatures on earth during the preAdamic age. This is why God judged the earth (void - Gen 1:2).

But sin came into MAN during the fall in Gen 3. In the garden God was everything to man - his protection, maintenance, supply and amusement. When man lost God, he lost everything.

Man's loss of God forced man to invent human culture, the main elements of which were cities for existence, cattle-raising for making a living, music for amusements, and weapons for defense (Gen 4:20-22 Cain's descendants).

So, so called human progress did came in ... but a invented godless human culture...
 
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VictimofChanges

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Or perhaps, if one accepts evolution as the underlying creative and formative process, how do we explain sin?

Why does one need to explain "sin" if one possesses the mental rationality to comprehend evolution?

Why does the fact that every human is capable of doing 'bad' things as well as good demand any inately supernatural explanation?

~~~

I reject the notions of both evolution and original sin.

On what grounds?
 
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Idea

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Evolution, original sin... what was in the beginning? the chicken or the egg?

Scientists who understand the laws of thermodynamics should have an understanding that some things have no beginning. The laws of conservation of mass, the conservation of energy. Some things have no beginning - they change from one form to another, but there was never a time of nothingness - for something does not come from nothing.

To the evolutionists - mass has no beginning, energy has no beginning - why does life have to have a beginning? I propose that life has always existed, just as energy and mass have always been around.

As for the origin of evil - it does not exist - evil has no origin - no begining.

John1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. If it was “made” it was made by Him, however, some things are not made – some things exist without a beginning, they are self-existent.

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. - Jeremiah1:5

Our birth was not our beginning… Part of us had no beginning.

8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand. - Isaiah64:8

The potter did not make the clay… but we can become His creation.
 
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prodromos

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Evolution is a "theory" which has very much fallen out of favor in academic circles. The problem is that because it gained such wide acceptance for a long period, it has become somewhat entrenched. ie. the system of naming species/families/genus was developed with the understanding of evolution being "fact" and not just a "theory".

Many scientists now reject the theory outright as more and more evidence (or lack thereof) comes to light disproving it. Those who still believe it do so more out of a misplaced faith than because of the evidence. It has achieved a religious status of sorts.

Anyway, there is no need to reconcile Christianity with evolution because evolution is a crock

John
 
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holyrokker

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Ormly

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Neither is in the sense of propagation.
 
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VictimofChanges

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I'm quite speechless.

Unless you have some solid evidence that evolution is no longer in "favour" in "academic circles", and can provide some of this so called evidence that "disproves" evolution, this comment ought to be laughed out of the room.

Also, I'd be interested to know how many of these "many scientists" who reject evolution are Christians.
 
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Idea

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a quick cut and paste on original sin:

When Adam and Eve were placed on the earth, they lived in the Garden of Eden. We do not know its dimensions, but the Prophet Joseph Smith taught that it was located in or near Independence, Jackson County, Missouri. 16 We learn in the Doctrine and Covenants that Adam and Eve later lived, at least for a period, not far distant from the garden, at Adam-ondi-Ahman (see D&C 117:8).
Without the benefit of latter-day revelation, many who have read only the Genesis account of events in the Garden of Eden have supposed that Adam and Eve were intended to stay in the garden forever. They assume that we were to be born in the garden and that we would also have lived there forever in a type of paradise. Consequently they blame Adam and Eve for disobeying God and look on them with disfavor because of the conditions we have on earth—pain, suffering, sin, evil, and death. Some even erroneously think that Adam and Eve’s transgression was sexual in nature. They assume that none of the general conditions we find on earth now would ever have come if our first parents had not been sinful.
Others have concluded that the whole story is a myth and that Adam and Eve are fictional characters. Still others speculate Adam and Eve were cave people whose descendants evolved into more advanced specimens.
In contrast, the restored gospel of Jesus Christ makes it abundantly clear that Adam and Eve were children of God just as we are. They were placed on earth as immortal beings. We are told they could read and write (see Moses 6:5, 46), and they knew and understood the plan of salvation, having been taught it in the Garden of Eden.
Adam was the first man to hold the keys of the everlasting priesthood on earth. With regard to the presidency of that priesthood under Jesus Christ, “Father Adam stands at the head, so far as this world is concerned,” said President Wilford Woodruff. 17 Adam and Eve were married, and since they were married by God when they were immortal beings, their marriage was eternal in nature. President Spencer W. Kimball wrote:
“ ‘And I, God, blessed them [Man here is always in the plural. It was plural from the beginning.] and said unto them: Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and have dominion over [it].’ (Moses 2:27–28.)
“And the scripture says,
“ ‘And I, God, said unto mine Only Begotten, which was with me from the beginning: Let us make man [not a separate man, but a complete man, which is husband and wife] in our image, after our likeness; and it was so’ (Moses 2:26). What a beautiful partnership! Adam and Eve were married for eternity by the Lord. Such a marriage extends beyond the grave. All peoples should call for this kind of marriage.” 18
In contrast to most readers of the Bible, we believe that Adam and Eve both should be commended for what they did to bring about the Fall. We understand that without the Fall none of us could have come to the earth and the whole plan of salvation would have been frustrated (see 2 Ne. 2:25). Adam said: “Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God” (Moses 5:10). Eve likewise rejoiced: “Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient” (Moses 5:11).
The Lord gave Adam and Eve four commandments in the Garden of Eden. They were to multiply and replenish the earth (see Gen. 1:28; Moses 2:28; Abr. 4:28). They were to govern the earth wisely (have dominion over it) (see Moses 2:28; Abr. 4:26). They were not to partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and if they did they would experience serious consequences (see Gen. 2:17; Moses 3:17; Abr. 5:13). And they were to remain with each other (see Gen. 2:24; Moses 3:24; Abr. 5:18). In the case of two of these commandments—to multiply and replenish the earth and to refrain from partaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil—Adam and Eve had to choose which they were to obey. Procreation was not possible for them in their immortal state (see 2 Ne. 2:22–25), yet Heavenly Father would not rob them of their agency by making the choice for them. President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Lord said to Adam that if he wished to remain as he was in the garden, then he was not to eat the fruit, but if he desired to eat it and partake of death he was at liberty to do so.” 19 In essence the Lord told Adam that there were two directions to go, each with its unique consequences—and that Adam was to choose which one.

From President Brigham Young we learn: “Some may regret that our first parents sinned. This is nonsense. If we had been there, and they had not sinned, we should have sinned. I will not blame Adam or Eve. Why? Because it was necessary that sin should enter into the world; no man could ever understand the principle of exaltation without its opposite; no one could ever receive an exaltation without being acquainted with its opposite. How did Adam and Eve sin? Did they come out in direct opposition to God and to his government? No. But they transgressed a command of the Lord, and through that transgression sin came into the world. The Lord knew they would do this, and he had designed that they should. Then came the curse upon the fruit, upon the vegetables, and upon our mother earth; and it came upon the creeping things, upon the grain in the field, the fish in the sea, and upon all things pertaining to this earth, through man’s transgression.” 20

The Prophet Joseph Smith referred to their choice to eat of the fruit as a “transgression,” not a sin (A of F 1:2). Similarly, Elder Bruce R. McConkie of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles explained: “It is proper and according to the scriptural pattern to speak of the transgression of Adam, but not the sin of Adam. (D. & C. 20:20; 29:40 [D&C 20:20; D&C 29:40]; Job 31:33; Rom. 5:14; 1 Tim. 2:14; Alma 12:31; Second Article of Faith.) Lehi says, for instance, ‘If Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen.’ Then he explains that while in their state of innocence in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve ‘knew no sin.’ (2 Ne. 2:22–23.) Knowledge of good and evil is an essential element in the commission of sin, and our first parents did not have this knowledge until after they had partaken of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.” 21

Thus, by being required to leave the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve caused the great plan of happiness to go forward. Mortality came to all living things; procreation began the process of bringing us, the sons and daughters of God, to earth as Adam and Eve’s posterity. We who have come here or will yet come agreed to the conditions of mortality in order to participate in the plan, and we counted as a great blessing the opportunity to live in this imperfect world (see Job 38:4–7). While those who do not understand the plan may feel that all of us are stained with sin when we are born, we know that this is erroneous thinking. Elder Joseph Fielding Smith of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles wrote: “Adam’s transgression was banishment from the presence of God and bringing the physical death into the world. The majority in the religious world maintain that every child born into this world is tainted with ‘original sin,’ or partakes of Adam’s transgression in his birth. The second Article of Faith contradicts this foolish and erroneous doctrine.” 22
 
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prodromos

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You need to read scientific journals, and no, it is not a "christian" scientist phenomena.

John
 
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Ormly

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Truth mingled with error producing a fantasy.
 
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Ormly

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Not that this forum is meant for evolution debates, but..

You could check out:

In Six Days [SIZE=-1](why 50 scientists choose to believe in creation) - Mutiple Essays[/SIZE]
Beyond Creation Science - Tim Martin & Jeff Vaughn, PHD

-A

Indeed, If God can do anything then the 6day time frame is no problem
 
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