Origen- Saint or Heretic?

[BearJim]

I'm sure that this has been covered before, but I did go back quite a ways in this forum and didn't see a thread specifically on Origen. So, what do you think? Was Origen a saintly scholar or subtle heretic? How much does he still influence Christian theology, even today?

 

[Philip]

Origen held a great many views, some correct, some incorrect.

 

[Knee V]

No to both. Is he a true christian? Well, that's for God to know and us to find out. As is the case for everyone else.

 

[NewToLife]

Origen was certainly a heretic and was judged by the Church to be so. Very clearly some of what Origen wrote was heretical but in his defence he was clearly a pious man who simply fell into error.

 

[Philip]

Origen was certainly a heretic and was judged by the Church to be so.

In particular, he was condemned for Universalism. Much of his other teachings, along with those of his students, is of great value.

 

[PaladinValer]

I'm with Philip on this one.

 

[NewToLife]

In particular, he was condemned for Universalism. Much of his other teachings, along with those of his students, is of great value.

I do not dispute that much of what he wrote is of great value. Nevertheless he was judged a heretic by the Church, it needed saying for the sake of clarity.

 

[Philip]

Agreed. An my intent was to clarify which teachings were rejected.

 

[AngCath]

The Church has answered this question. Done deal.

 

[JVAC]

The Church has answered this question. Done deal.

I love that response, it works on so many levels.

Origen's thoughts were semi-arian, and in no doubt led Arius, the Arch-Heretic, to believing what he did. Origen's writings and influence on the Early Church were so great that Pious men such as St Athanasius the Great found themselves being dethroned, banished, tortured, and imprisoned for the catholic Faith. Origen's impact is deffinately noteworthy, however, he also emasculated himself, which goes against canon law and the OT. Everyone is right here, in saying that judgement is for God, but the Church cannot regard him as one of the greatest saints because of two reasons, 1 His detour from the catholic Faith 2 for his impious actions with his body.

-James

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

Origen was certainly a heretic and was judged by the Church to be so. Very clearly some of what Origen wrote was heretical but in his defence he was clearly a pious man who simply fell into error.

Of the one genuine heresy Origin fell into, the "anthropomorphite heresy", Origin, when charged did repent and was restored to communion.

While many of his teachings were dubious and unorthodox, they did not conflict with the essentials

 

[Knee V]

During Origin's life, was he ever excommunicated for being a heretic?

 

[Philip]

Not really sure. I know his Universalism was condemned later.

 

[PaladinValer]

If I remember my history right, his views on soteriology were condemned later.

 

[LamorakDesGalis]

During Origin's life, was he ever excommunicated for being a heretic?

No, although he did have a conflict with a jealous Bishop Demetrius of Alexandria. Origen was appointed as a teacher of the Alexandrian school by Demetrius. Origen then became an extremely popular teacher and was invited by some bishops to preach in Palestine. Demetrius recalled Origen back to Alexandria on the technicality that Origen was still a layman and not allowed to preach. Years later Origen was again invited by the same bishops to preach in Palestine and they also ordained him a priest. Demetrius didn't like that at all, so he denied Origen was a priest, took away his Alexandrian teaching position and exiled him. The other bishops simply ignored Demetrius' declarations. Origen then setup a school in Caesarea. Origen remained a very popular teacher during his lifetime, and he died shortly after he was tortured for his faith.

Origen's works were also very popular, and it was well after he died that the controversies came about. Origen's writings contained orthodox teachings as well as speculations - speculations which may not have been intended by him to be on the same level as doctrine. Certainly many orthodox Christians like Jerome were strong advocates of Origen's writings, but at the same time rejected his speculations. Others however did not reject the speculations but instead considered them doctrine. They became known as "Origenists." The errors of these guys is what was condemned at the Council of Alexandria in 400 AD, and then later at Constantinople in 543. However it was at the Council at Constantinople in 553 that Origen himself was condemned as a heretic.


LDG

 

[NewToLife]

Origin was only condemned posthumously, that said he fell into heresy in areas other than soteriology, the view of the Trinity which appears in some of his work for instance is also heretical, reducing as it does, the Holy Spirit to a created being. He is best known for his universalism and the emasculation but anyone reading his works should probably take care that the Church approves the specific writings.

 

[Cappadocian]

Origen also taught that the human soul was eternally preexisting.

Much value can be had from reading Origen's works, but his universalism, in particular, is a demonic heresy that was anathematized by the 5th Ecumenical Council.

 

[ElderCleopa]

Yes, I found his view of the Holy Spirit quite disturbing. He said that he was deserving of equal honor with the Father, and Son, but then proceeds to describe the Holy Spirit as a non-being...more of an energy or force. It boggled my mind a bit. Although, I do find much of his writing to be good. Most of his heretical teachings can be found in DE PRINCIPIIS (The Fundamental Doctrines). Some of that stuff can be scary.

 

[depthdeception]

I love Origen.

 

[PaladinValer]

**Burns depthdeception on the stake**

IS OUTRAGE!