Ordainment

[joshmurdoch84]

I wanted to introduce myself a bit first. My name is Joshua Murdoch I am 28 years old I have three kids two with my ex wife and one with my Fiance. My question is what does everyone think of "online" ordainement. I have been called to the ministry. I have prayed about this and this is what GOD is wanting me to do. I don't have the resources to go and get my ordainment at a typical school. But I know that GOD wants me to lead a church and he wants me to partake in everything that comes with a Pastor with an open heart which I am willing and excited about doing. But is gettting ordained online "as acceptable" as typical ordainment? I believe GOD wants me to get ordained online because no matter what I am doing online I find myself looking at different online ordainment and comparing them. Please let me know your opinion.
Thanks and God Bless

 

[gasman64]

Let me ask you. Why do you think you have been called to full time ministry? From your info, you have not been leading a life of discipline and restraint? You are in a relationship that does not represent Godly leadership? Do you display the character traits of a leader that people would like to follow and take advice from? Just being brutally honest. Are you sure it's not just vain imaginations on your part? I'm a carnal man too and a leader, but people follow substance. Walking the walk. Are you prepared for the dealings and corrections that God will unleash on you to prepare you for the ministry? Because you aren't ready yet. It is brutal and life changing and very few leaders get all of the glory trimmings of reputation and adulation and respect. Most are abused and taken advantage of and very few are thanked. It's a very hard road. And you would be taking your family with you on that journey. Are they strong enough for that? Is your fiance? A life of financial hardship? Orthodox churches who train their people will support them financilly, regardless of the size of their congregations. You won't have that support. You will have to work AND lead in your private time adding strain to your family relationships. I think you need some serious reflection on your life and your ambitions first. 28 is too young for that. I'm not having a crack at you personally as I don't know you, but I've been around and I know what is involved. I've earned my stripes.

 

[RLM0501]

I disagree entirely with most of the things you said gasman. 28 is not to young to be a minister. I am only 17 and my pastor's are already trying to get me into the process. I went to a revival 2 weeks ago. A week prior to this revival, i had a calling laid on my heart. He wanted me to become and ordained minister. I spoke to my Pentecostal Pastor and my Baptist Pastor and his wife about it. I went to revival and had a great time worshiping the Lord. Our Pentecostal Pastor has the gift of Prophecy, i had only seen this man once before in my life about 2 weeks before the revival at our church. I only said 1 sentence to him which was "God bless you for coming and speaking". We were worshiping and shouting and praising as i personally feel everyone should do. He walks over to me and begins to prophecize. He says the following words to me:

" My son, the Lord has told me to tell you that you will become a great minister. He will bless you in your upcoming career and you will achieve a level greater than any of your family. Just have Faith in Him."

This man had never spoken to me until then and there is no way he knew about my calling before that moment. God spoke to that man. He prophecized over MANY other people that week and he told them things only they knew and they wept heavily. Since then, i have begun speaking a small message on Tuesday Nights at my Pentecostal Church. My Baptist Church was going to call me to be a deacon until school conflicted and even offered to give me a spot to be a deacon after i graduate. If God has used a 17 year old boy like this, i am beyond convinced he can use Josh.

Now granted, the ministry is NEVER going to be easy. I recently witnessed to a good friend of mine and now we no longer talk because he couldn't deal with how religious i was. I have no doubt more things of that such WILL come, but i know that Jesus loved everyone so i learn to keep my temper and pray for such people. If God truly had called Josh, all he has to do is become sensitive to the voice of God and follow his will no matter what it is and He will be fine. Josh, i have alot of testimony from our revival pastor on things when he was becoming a minister. If you are interested or have any questions, Private message me my friend!

God Bless you for answering the call.

 

[gasman64]

I disagree entirely with most of the things you said gasman. 28 is not to young to be a minister. I am only 17 and my pastor's are already trying to get me into the process. I went to a revival 2 weeks ago. A week prior to this revival, i had a calling laid on my heart. He wanted me to become and ordained minister. I spoke to my Pentecostal Pastor and my Baptist Pastor and his wife about it. I went to revival and had a great time worshiping the Lord. Our Pentecostal Pastor has the gift of Prophecy, i had only seen this man once before in my life about 2 weeks before the revival at our church. I only said 1 sentence to him which was "God bless you for coming and speaking". We were worshiping and shouting and praising as i personally feel everyone should do. He walks over to me and begins to prophecize. He says the following words to me:

" My son, the Lord has told me to tell you that you will become a great minister. He will bless you in your upcoming career and you will achieve a level greater than any of your family. Just have Faith in Him."

This man had never spoken to me until then and there is no way he knew about my calling before that moment. God spoke to that man. He prophecized over MANY other people that week and he told them things only they knew and they wept heavily. Since then, i have begun speaking a small message on Tuesday Nights at my Pentecostal Church. My Baptist Church was going to call me to be a deacon until school conflicted and even offered to give me a spot to be a deacon after i graduate. If God has used a 17 year old boy like this, i am beyond convinced he can use Josh.

Now granted, the ministry is NEVER going to be easy. I recently witnessed to a good friend of mine and now we no longer talk because he couldn't deal with how religious i was. I have no doubt more things of that such WILL come, but i know that Jesus loved everyone so i learn to keep my temper and pray for such people. If God truly had called Josh, all he has to do is become sensitive to the voice of God and follow his will no matter what it is and He will be fine. Josh, i have alot of testimony from our revival pastor on things when he was becoming a minister. If you are interested or have any questions, Private message me my friend!

God Bless you for answering the call.

Well of course you'd disagree as you are only 17. But you are talking about a calling. Not a fulfillment. David was annointed early but it wasn't fulfilled until many years later. You will be no different.

 

[Episaw]

This post is evident of the strange man made idea about ministry and ordination. No one needs ordination apart from God's ordination and that is found in Ephesians 4:11. You are ordained by God to be an apostle, prophet, evangelist, teacher or shepherd. If God has not anointed you with one of these ministries, all the ordination by man won't give it to you. You will end up being a false version of the real.

If God has anointed you in some way what will happen? The first thing is you will serve people. If you are not serving, you are not anointed by God. You are just assuming.

What next? You will need to prove yourself as a man of integrity and trustworthiness and that you can manage your own household well. See Timothy. Oh, and very important, be the husband of ONE WIFE. That excludes you Josh. As for God wanting you to do it. I was not aware that God called us to do things contrary to His word.

In my country, we have over 10,000 ex pastors who thought they were "called" by God to be a pastor. If you are motivated by rejection, you will want to make things happen regardless of God's will.

I would suggest that having being married and divorced and have produced a baby with someone who is not your wife, that you have rejection issues that will destroy you if you go into ministry.

The best thing you can do is forget anything about ministry and spend your time getting your life sorted out and start following what God says in His word, rather than submitting to your emotional needs for ungodly sex as it is a clear indication that you are out of control.

As the word says, if a man cannot bring himself into submission, how can he govern the church of God.

 

[Episaw]

A few thoughts for you to clarify your thinking.

28 is not to young to be a minister. I am only 17 and my pastor's are already trying to get me into the process.

Your personal experience is no basis for applying God's word, especially when it disagrees with you. There are 25 verses in the NT that speaks about leadership which is exercised by Apostles, Prophets and Elders.

The word Elder in Greek in every case means older men chronologically. Therefore that rules out a 17 and 28 y.o. In Jewish life, which the NT church based itself on, a man was not considered for Eldership until he was 40 y.o.

I went to a revival 2 weeks ago

.
No you didn't. When I was at Bible College, I did a study of revival. They all has similar characteristics. An overwhelming sense of sin. Meetings that went day and night. God's holy presence which brought people to their knees in conviction of sin. Agonising prayer. Programmes swept aside in favour of the control of the Holy Spirit. Miraculous healing and deliverance.

Did you experience all these things?

He wanted me to become and ordained minister.

Why would he want that? The scriptures says that we are all ordained to go forth and bear fruit. Either you are ordained or you are not. Your ordination is evidenced by your fruit. No fruit, no ordination. Concentrate on God's ordination, not mans.

Our Pentecostal Pastor has the gift of Prophecy, i had only seen this man once before in my life about 2 weeks before the revival at our church.

How come you have only seen your "pastor" once in your life? I see the Elders (shepherds) in my church every week.

I only said 1 sentence to him which was "God bless you for coming and speaking".

Is that not normal then, for "your" pastor to speak at your church?

" My son, the Lord has told me to tell you that you will become a great minister. He will bless you in your upcoming career and you will achieve a level greater than any of your family. Just have Faith in Him."

That was not a prophecy. It was wishful thinking from a man motivated by rejection.

my Pentecostal Church. My Baptist Church

So you attend two churches?

was going to call me to be a deacon until school conflicted and even offered to give me a spot to be a deacon after i graduate.

I doubt that you are being called to be a Deacon according to the qualifications set out in scripture which are as follows...

1Ti 3:8 Likewise, deacons are to be reverent, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy of ill gain,
1Ti 3:9 having the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience.
1Ti 3:10 And also let these be tested first, then let them serve, being without reproach.
1Ti 3:11 Likewise, their wives are to be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let deacons be husbands of one wife, ruling their own houses and children well.

Are you married and have children. If not you don't qualify.

If God has used a 17 year old boy like this, i am beyond convinced he can use Josh.

You are on dangerous ground with a theology like this.

i have alot of testimony from our revival pastor on things when he was becoming a minister.

As revival is a sovereign work of God there is no such thing as a "revival" pastor.

 

[gasman64]

You are quite right on revival. When I was in my 20's I did ministry in retirement homes and I met a man who was a part of the great Welsh revival. What a blessing that was. The police almost went out of business as the entire countrysides behaviour changed and there were very few drunks out at night.

A few thoughts for you to clarify your thinking.



Your personal experience is no basis for applying God's word, especially when it disagrees with you. There are 25 verses in the NT that speaks about leadership which is exercised by Apostles, Prophets and Elders.

The word Elder in Greek in every case means older men chronologically. Therefore that rules out a 17 and 28 y.o. In Jewish life, which the NT church based itself on, a man was not considered for Eldership until he was 40 y.o.

.
No you didn't. When I was at Bible College, I did a study of revival. They all has similar characteristics. An overwhelming sense of sin. Meetings that went day and night. God's holy presence which brought people to their knees in conviction of sin. Agonising prayer. Programmes swept aside in favour of the control of the Holy Spirit. Miraculous healing and deliverance.

Did you experience all these things?



Why would he want that? The scriptures says that we are all ordained to go forth and bear fruit. Either you are ordained or you are not. Your ordination is evidenced by your fruit. No fruit, no ordination. Concentrate on God's ordination, not mans.



How come you have only seen your "pastor" once in your life? I see the Elders (shepherds) in my church every week.



Is that not normal then, for "your" pastor to speak at your church?



That was not a prophecy. It was wishful thinking from a man motivated by rejection.



So you attend two churches?



I doubt that you are being called to be a Deacon according to the qualifications set out in scripture which are as follows...

1Ti 3:8 Likewise, deacons are to be reverent, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy of ill gain,
1Ti 3:9 having the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience.
1Ti 3:10 And also let these be tested first, then let them serve, being without reproach.
1Ti 3:11 Likewise, their wives are to be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let deacons be husbands of one wife, ruling their own houses and children well.

Are you married and have children. If not you don't qualify.



You are on dangerous ground with a theology like this.



As revival is a sovereign work of God there is no such thing as a "revival" pastor.

 

[Episaw]

You are quite right on revival. When I was in my 20's I did ministry in retirement homes and I met a man who was a part of the great Welsh revival. What a blessing that was. The police almost went out of business as the entire countrysides behaviour changed and there were very few drunks out at night.

The Welsh miners were known as hard drinking men but that didn't mean anything for the pubs during the revival as I am led to believe that they closed down for lack of business.

With your comments added to mine, I rarely use the term "revival" to describe any meeting today. What I have found is that it usually means a lot of huff and puff and manipulation of emotions.

I want to experience true revival and the church needs to experience it but I doubt if they want it, especially as it means they have to give up all control and submit to the holiness brought by the Holy Spirit and submit to His programme.

 

[gasman64]

The Welsh miners were known as hard drinking men but that didn't mean anything for the pubs during the revival as I am led to believe that they closed down for lack of business.

With your comments added to mine, I rarely use the term "revival" to describe any meeting today. What I have found is that it usually means a lot of huff and puff and manipulation of emotions.

I want to experience true revival and the church needs to experience it but I doubt if they want it, especially as it means they have to give up all control and submit to the holiness brought by the Holy Spirit and submit to His programme.

It's like they think they can conjure up a move of God. But all it takes is for God's people to be truly repentant. The only thing that needs revival is something almost dead. Church leadership that is prepared to submit and give up control. You jest....such a thing does not exist...haha...yet

 

[Episaw]

It's like they think they can conjure up a move of God. But all it takes is for God's people to be truly repentant. The only thing that needs revival is something almost dead. Church leadership that is prepared to submit and give up control. You jest....such a thing does not exist...haha...yet

Your words sadden me because I know they are the truth in western churches particularly.

Fifty years ago, I was part of a Baptist Church in England. The Pastor made an announcement that there was more to church than what was happening at the moment and he would spend one evening a week on his knees before God and invited anyone to join him.

About six of us did and every week for about six months we waited on God. We were new to the gifts of the spirit and God showed us many things supernaturally through them.

To cut a long story short we had a breakthrough and never looked back despite many leaving because Baptist churches didn't do what we were doing and the Deacons resigned en masse in protest.

As I said, we never looked back as a traditional Baptist Church of about a 100 became a charismatic Baptist of over 1,000.

As they say, if you want to get warm you go where the fire is and when we do things God's way anything can happen and does.

 

[gasman64]

Your words sadden me because I know they are the truth in western churches particularly.

Fifty years ago, I was part of a Baptist Church in England. The Pastor made an announcement that there was more to church than what was happening at the moment and he would spend one evening a week on his knees before God and invited anyone to join him.

About six of us did and every week for about six months we waited on God. We were new to the gifts of the spirit and God showed us many things supernaturally through them.

To cut a long story short we had a breakthrough and never looked back despite many leaving because Baptist churches didn't do what we were doing and the Deacons resigned en masse in protest.

As I said, we never looked back as a traditional Baptist Church of about a 100 became a charismatic Baptist of over 1,000.

As they say, if you want to get warm you go where the fire is and when we do things God's way anything can happen and does.

Don't worry. If Gos can't move them, he'll find someone. There always is a remnant.

 

[RLM0501]

A few thoughts for you to clarify your thinking.



Your personal experience is no basis for applying God's word, especially when it disagrees with you. There are 25 verses in the NT that speaks about leadership which is exercised by Apostles, Prophets and Elders.

The word Elder in Greek in every case means older men chronologically. Therefore that rules out a 17 and 28 y.o. In Jewish life, which the NT church based itself on, a man was not considered for Eldership until he was 40 y.o.

.
No you didn't. When I was at Bible College, I did a study of revival. They all has similar characteristics. An overwhelming sense of sin. Meetings that went day and night. God's holy presence which brought people to their knees in conviction of sin. Agonising prayer. Programmes swept aside in favour of the control of the Holy Spirit. Miraculous healing and deliverance.

Did you experience all these things?



Why would he want that? The scriptures says that we are all ordained to go forth and bear fruit. Either you are ordained or you are not. Your ordination is evidenced by your fruit. No fruit, no ordination. Concentrate on God's ordination, not mans.



How come you have only seen your "pastor" once in your life? I see the Elders (shepherds) in my church every week.



Is that not normal then, for "your" pastor to speak at your church?



That was not a prophecy. It was wishful thinking from a man motivated by rejection.



So you attend two churches?



I doubt that you are being called to be a Deacon according to the qualifications set out in scripture which are as follows...

1Ti 3:8 Likewise, deacons are to be reverent, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy of ill gain,
1Ti 3:9 having the mystery of the faith with a pure conscience.
1Ti 3:10 And also let these be tested first, then let them serve, being without reproach.
1Ti 3:11 Likewise, their wives are to be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12 Let deacons be husbands of one wife, ruling their own houses and children well.

Are you married and have children. If not you don't qualify.



You are on dangerous ground with a theology like this.



As revival is a sovereign work of God there is no such thing as a "revival" pastor.

You misunderstood me, the minister that spoke at our church during revival is the one who has the gift of prophecy, our Pastor does not. All the things i said were about the minister, not my pastor

Yes i did experience those things at my revival. There was one night where EVERYONE was at the alter, people on there knee's, tears, deliverances, praying and speaking in Tongues. So yes, i was at a revival and i do not appreciate you telling me i wasn't.

Were the apostles not at a younger age when they met Jesus? God can call anyone to minister my friend, young or old.

God's ordination begins with a calling, then you answer the calling and accept it. You get trained, then become ordained. You don't just become a minister.

You are misinterpreting scriptures on the deacon thing. It simply gives guidelines for if they are married, it does not say i have to be married to be a deacon nor have kids to be one. It says if i am, i am to control my house and for my wife to be a good disciplined Christian Woman.

I do not appreciate the out lash at me in this way.

 

[Episaw]

You misunderstood me, the minister that spoke at our church during revival is the one who has the gift of prophecy, our Pastor does not. All the things i said were about the minister, not my pastor

"I spoke to my Pentecostal Pastor and my Baptist Pastor and his wife about it. I went to revival and had a great time worshiping the Lord. Our Pentecostal Pastor has the gift of Prophecy,"

My Pentecostal pastor...my Baptist pastor...no mention of a visiting minister.

Yes i did experience those things at my revival. There was one night where EVERYONE was at the alter, people on there knee's, tears, deliverances, praying and speaking in Tongues. So yes, i was at a revival and i do not appreciate you telling me i wasn't.

That is only ONE aspect of revival and does not make a revival and in revival it does not happen once. It happens day after day after day after day.

Were the apostles not at a younger age when they met Jesus? God can call anyone to minister my friend, young or old.

They were not 17 or 26 and most were married.

God's ordination begins with a calling, then you answer the calling and accept it. You get trained, then become ordained. You don't just become a minister.

You speak from ignorance and inexperience. Once you are anointed by God with one of the five ministries, that is your ministry from that day. Oh, by the way, ordination as you call it does not appear in the New Testament. ordination in the NT is to lay prostrate in surrender.

You are misinterpreting scriptures on the deacon thing. It simply gives guidelines for if they are married, it does not say i have to be married to be a deacon nor have kids to be one. It says if i am, i am to control my house and for my wife to be a good disciplined Christian Woman.

1 Timothy 3:12
(ASV) Let deacons be husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

(BBE) Let Deacons be husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their houses well.

(ISV) Ministers must be husbands of one wife and must manage their children and their families well.

(KJV) Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

(LITV) Let deacons be husbands of one wife, ruling their own houses and children well.

(MKJV) Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and households well.

(Webster) Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children, and their own houses well.

(WNT) A deacon must be true to his one wife, and rule his children and his own household wisely and well.

(YLT) Ministrants--let them be of one wife husbands; the children leading well, and their own houses,

Let the deacons be...must be....husband of one wife in nine different translations. No mention at all of....IF YOU ARE MARRIED!!!.

You will have to forgive me if I accept the word of nine different translations to that of a 17 y.o with no experience.

I spoke to my Pentecostal Pastor and my Baptist Pastor and his wife about it. I went to revival and had a great time worshiping the Lord. Our Pentecostal Pastor has the gift of Prophecy,

Again...my Pentecostal pastor. Again...my Baptist pastor. No mention of a visiting pastor.

I do not appreciate the out lash at me in this way.

What is an "out lash" and I suggest you read 1 Timothy 5:1 and 1 Peter 5:5 especially as you seem to have problem with correction so you have a long way to go before you are anywhere near ready to be used by God in ministry.
I have found from extensive experience that character is the most important quality for anyone who has aspirations for ministry.

That comes through the fire of submission and correction and takes many years to develop. That is why God wants his ministers married as family life will develop your character quicker than anything and I speak from experience here with a marriage of 43 years duration, two children and seven grandchildren.

 

[gasman64]

It's the young 17yr old Episaw. He will always think we are being mean to him. He has opinions, but no experience.

 

[Episaw]

Too right Gasman. When I was a teenager, I did what my Elders told me to do. Today it seems they tell the Elders what to do.

I knew I didn't know as much as them. Today, they seem to think no one knows as much as them.

A Gen Y said to me that they decide what they will and won't learn and she claimed to be a Christian.

I thought with an attitude like that in all probability they won't learn anything. In actual fact, she didn't believe what she said as she was at university and she learned what she was required to learn otherwise it meant no degree.

Like all things you can learn the easy way or you can learn the hard way. Unfortunately, young people today including a lot of christian young people, seem to want to learn the hard way (unnecessarily).

I thank God for the Godly men and women who would not let me learn the hard way. As a result I built a very strong foundation that allowed me to give an account of the hope within me.

Today, when the going gets tough, a lot of young people go weak at the knees.

No doubt you can tell similar stories.

 

[RLM0501]

You can tell me what you like. But with 2 churchs supporting me and telling me that i am doing what is right, and me experiencing miracles in my life, i believe i am doing what i am supposed to. So i am now leaving this thread and i do not want either of you to speak bad of me on this forum again. Thank you.

 

[gasman64]

No-one is speaking bad of you. You are the one with absolutely no experience who swung in here and categorically disagreed with everything we had to say with nothing to show for yourself but what one visiting man prayed over you when he makes his living traveling to churches like yours and he says good things because he wants to be asked back again so he can get paid again. Visiting ministries often get paid thousands so the show must be a good one. I wouldn't try to build my house with the bricks he gave you. True leadership comes with time, chastisement and difficulty. Anything else, is not worth having. If it is your calling, then I hope it is a great one, but be prepared, because to whom much is given, much shall be required. It does not get freely given by a traveling carnival act.

 

[gasman64]

Too right Gasman. When I was a teenager, I did what my Elders told me to do. Today it seems they tell the Elders what to do.

I knew I didn't know as much as them. Today, they seem to think no one knows as much as them.

A Gen Y said to me that they decide what they will and won't learn and she claimed to be a Christian.

I thought with an attitude like that in all probability they won't learn anything. In actual fact, she didn't believe what she said as she was at university and she learned what she was required to learn otherwise it meant no degree.

Like all things you can learn the easy way or you can learn the hard way. Unfortunately, young people today including a lot of christian young people, seem to want to learn the hard way (unnecessarily).

I thank God for the Godly men and women who would not let me learn the hard way. As a result I built a very strong foundation that allowed me to give an account of the hope within me.

Today, when the going gets tough, a lot of young people go weak at the knees.

No doubt you can tell similar stories.

There is an educational term for it. It's called "prescriptive learning" They test the students, then only teach what they got wrong so they will be able to pass. Results orientated and saves on resources of the school. Short-cut education.

 

[Episaw]

You can tell me what you like. But with 2 churchs supporting me and telling me that i am doing what is right, and me experiencing miracles in my life, i believe i am doing what i am supposed to. So i am now leaving this thread and i do not want either of you to speak bad of me on this forum again. Thank you

.
For any other young people reading all this. An attitude like this is a recipe for disaster. The fact is, if you can't be led, you can't lead. It does not say much for his church/es if they approve of such an attitude.

It does not get freely given by a traveling carnival act.

I like that Gasman. Very succinct and apt.

 

[RLM0501]

Let me begin by apologizing for my attitude. Can you two forgive me and we proceed into a decent discussion?

Let me secondly ask this, do neither of you belive God can call a younger man to minister? And that there may be certain situations in God's will with which he would need to be raised to a fast degree? I can tell you, i feel like ive had a whole years lessons in about 2 months. God has took the time to show me some very important lessons i need to know. I learn something EVERY Tuesday and almost every Sunday. Both church's are VERY intent on teaching me the right way on things.