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Opinions on Third Parties....

WannaWitness

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Time for another one of my goofball questions I have pulled off the top of my head (if no one minds): :sorry:

The question is just what the title of the thread is. What is your opinion on some of the political parties we have today other than Republican and Democrat? There seems to be quite a few now: Libertarian, Constitution, Green, Reform, Independent American, and a new one that has come to surface (though not widespread at this time) called Modern Whigs... and I'm sure the list goes on.

Do you feel such parties are passable alternatives to those politically "in the middle" and are sick of the main two? Or do you feel it's a "wasted vote"?

Or are you indifferent?

Just let me know what you think, as I'm hungry for opinions again! :p

I only request one thing: While I understand that it's only natural that we won't agree on everything, please respectfully disagree, and try not to kill one another. :)

I have a link I might post a little later on the topic.
 

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Hi WW,

You know, I was considering this very question the other day when sharing my 'opinion' about all the political themes and threads that I have been finding on this board. As I explained on another thread, I thought conservative christians were those who had conservative views on the Scriptures and wasn't aware that it's for those who have self-proclaimed conservative political views.

I think it would be wonderful if we were able to do away with man-made denominations of the 'church' and tried to be more like what is described in the Scriptures as the 'church' of a particular city or geographic area and everyone who believed in Jesus as the only sacrifice for their sin and believed that God raised him from the dead worshiped together in one place. For example: the 'church' of Seneca and everyone who believed, whether there beliefs were in line with what some denomination might follow still worshiped and praised God with the singular 'church' in that area. Just think of the power and awe of unbelievers who would see, rather than 50 people going here and 100 people going there and 2,000 people going somewhere else if 30,000 people came together to praise the Lord in even small towns and cities. Yes, in larger cities you would need to have a 'church' designated by some name that would define a smaller area. Such as the 'church of South Chicago, or even the 'church' named by some smaller named area. Most large cities have within their accepted area smaller named neighborhoods. In the city of Miami for instance you have Allapatah, Liberty City, Little River neighborhoods for which you could name a 'church' building where a group from that neighborhood could come. Of course, no problem if people wanted to cross boundaries because they like a particular teacher better and quite honestly I can't see any problem if some wanted to visit different fellowships every other week.

So, you ask, you did ask didn't you? What has that got to with the question at hand? Well, I'm glad you asked! Why must people who feel led to seek an elected position have to join with any recognized group? Why can't John Doe, who wants to be mayor or legislator or president, run against Billy Wray who also feels confident that he would be a good choice for the elected office and they both also run against Sally Forth and Paul Bunyun and Jim Smith and Lisa Mona and they all raise for themselves whatever monies they need to promote their plans and agendas and we choose who's the best.

If Billy Wray and Lisa Mona and two or three others want to throw their hat in the ring for mayor of Bumpkinsville, then they ask among all their friends and supporters to make donations to their campaign and they run for the office and whoever the community decides, by popular vote is best, wins. Period. There is no, "Well, I vote republican..." or, "I vote democrat..." No! Everyone votes for whoever they think is the best person for the job and the popular vote wins.

Yes, I understand that in the larger national races there may be a need, as we have now, where the general public who wants to make money available to anyone for their campaign expenses can check that little box on their tax return and when it comes time all that money is evenly divided among the candidates. Yes, I agree that there may need to be some regulatory oversight to make sure that not just anyone says they want to run for president and gets the money and then never does anything. It could be that while the pot is evenly divided, to actually get the money it would be handled on a reimbursement program. You go line up national advertising and pay, at least some deposit from the cash that you have from personal and corporate donors, and then after the ads have run, bring the receipts and you will be reimbursed.

For sure, I don't claim to have worked out all the bugs as it is just an idea that allows us to make our elective choices based strictly on the merits of an individual without feeling beholden or loyal to some party affiliation. Just think how different our legislature might operate if there were no party lines. Votes were cast on issues based strictly on an elected officials personal ideas and conscience regarding the merit of whatever issue is being voted on.

It seems that, especially here in the healthcare issue, that I am constantly reading that, "all the republicans have voted one way, while all the democrats voted another." I can't help but know that some of those votes are cast as they are because one is trying to stay true to the party line, rather than actually weighing the merits of the issue at hand. How different would many of our legislative votes turn out if there were no parties? Today we read where the president is 'courting' the republican vote. But what if there was no 'republican vote'. He'd have to go and talk with each legislator or at least hold an open meeting where he might invite 20 or 30 various legislators to hear his ideas and plans, but even in that there would be no party affiliation among the various listeners. Each man would listen and decide with his own mind and discernment how he wanted to vote.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
 
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Standing_Ultraviolet

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Third Parties don't really seem to offer much of a third option for people, honestly, with a handful of exceptions. They're generally either single-issue parties with no real platform other than to raise awareness of a topic they perceive as important, or ideologically similar to a major party. You have a few, like the Libertarian Party (which I don't support, but it's honestly the only major one I can think of right now) with their own fairly unique views, but other than that, they're mostly not all that different from the major parties. If they're on the right, they'll support both social and fiscal conservatism, usually going a long way out on the "fiscal conservatism" part. If they're on the left, they're likely to take social liberalism further than the Democratic Party, and possibly be outright socialist or even communist with their economic policies (hence the American Communist Party).

It's a wasted vote anyway, unfortunately. If there were a third party that I fully supported, I probably still wouldn't vote for it, just because it would be a waste of the time and energy it would take to get to the polling place.
 
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WannaWitness

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Why vote third party?

Above is the link I was talking about. I found it a few days ago, and to me, it makes sense (even though I don't doubt some will disagree).

And, apart from the link, we might keep in mind that, many moons ago, Republican (for those here who might lean that way) was a "third party", making way for one of the greatest Presidents the U.S. has ever had: Abraham Lincoln! He is the perfect example, especially knowing that no matter where we may sit politically, we can pretty much agree his accomplishments (as we read of him in history) is deserving of high honor.

Unfortunately, both main parties seem to be drastically different from what they might have been years ago (note that I said "seem" because, of course, none of us sitting here today experienced that era, and naturally go on what we read and research). Which brings me to the topic at hand, and why I think the very thought of a "third party" might not be as silly as it seems.

I'd like to thank everyone for their input, so far. I'm willing to hear some more.... :)
 
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nChrist

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Just as an example that might not be so good:

You have a good third party candidate,

You have a not so good Republican,

You have a really not good Democrat.

The top two split the vote and the Democrat wins. This is overly simplistic, but this is the danger of a SOMEWHAT popular third party candidate. They can actually get the guy you REALLY don't want elected.
 
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sealacamp

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Just as an example that might not be so good:

You have a good third party candidate,

You have a not so good Republican,

You have a really not good Democrat.

The top two split the vote and the Democrat wins. This is overly simplistic, but this is the danger of a SOMEWHAT popular third party candidate. They can actually get the guy you REALLY don't want elected.


That may be a simple breakdown of the effect of a third party but it is accurate, it has happened several times. Now if there were a party left enough to split the Democrat vote then we might be on an even playing field. Surely the Republican party has its share of problems, there is no doubt about that, but the problems associated with the Democratic party are overly destructive and in the long run those policies will destroy this nation. Even some Democrats know that and are speaking out about it too. The party of the Democrats is not what it once was. It has become an arm for Marxism, an ideology that has been proven to fail anywhere it has been implemented. If anyone is looking for some insight into that there is a great book written by a Democrat about Democrats:

Amazon.com: Duped America: How Democrats And The Mainstream Media Have Duped The American People And Are Harming Our Country (9780578051246): Richard Bernstein: Books

Sealacamp
 
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Standing_Ultraviolet

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Now if there were a party left enough to split the Democrat vote then we might be on an even playing field.

There actually are groups like the Green Party that split the Democrats. Back in 2004 I know that Ralph Nader hurt John Kerry's chances of winning the presidency. I think he's probably one of the best examples of this ever happening, actually.

Surely the Republican party has its share of problems, there is no doubt about that, but the problems associated with the Democratic party are overly destructive and in the long run those policies will destroy this nation.
Sealacamp
Correction. Both parties are going to ruin our nation. Maybe I'm a little bitter after watching the country fall apart for every year that I can remember really caring about politics, but I don't trust the Republican Party not to be too reactionary to realizing that the national debt is out of control. Yes, the Democrats are too far to the left on economic (and obviously social) issues, but that doesn't mean you can swing to the economic opposite extreme and slash programs left and right without listening to reason.

I would support a financial policy that looked at the risks and benefits of cutting or adding a new program rather than just saying "ooooh, this looks good and sounds humanitarian, let's add it" or "we need to cut spending so that we never have to raise taxes". But, since we live in a nation where getting elected means being able to sway a crowd of people, emotion will always predominate over logic. Thus is the nature of the world.
 
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NvxiaLee

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The "wasted vote" argument is stupid. 1) Your vote won't change the outcome of the presidential election (even if a 3rd-party candidate could change the outcome of the election). 2) Voting for what you believe sends a clearer message than voting for the lessor of the two evils, who would be practically the same in office, anyway.
 
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WalksWithChrist

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There actually are groups like the Green Party that split the Democrats. Back in 2004 I know that Ralph Nader hurt John Kerry's chances of winning the presidency. I think he's probably one of the best examples of this ever happening, actually.

Correction. Both parties are going to ruin our nation. Maybe I'm a little bitter after watching the country fall apart for every year that I can remember really caring about politics, but I don't trust the Republican Party not to be too reactionary to realizing that the national debt is out of control. Yes, the Democrats are too far to the left on economic (and obviously social) issues, but that doesn't mean you can swing to the economic opposite extreme and slash programs left and right without listening to reason.

I would support a financial policy that looked at the risks and benefits of cutting or adding a new program rather than just saying "ooooh, this looks good and sounds humanitarian, let's add it" or "we need to cut spending so that we never have to raise taxes". But, since we live in a nation where getting elected means being able to sway a crowd of people, emotion will always predominate over logic. Thus is the nature of the world.
Nader...perfect example.

It's all about the money. Want to know why third parties won't ever get anywhere? Follow the money.
 
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Izdaari Eristikon

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I'm a big supporter of the Libertarian Party, ever since 1972 when they were first on the ballot. But I have no hope they can actually win, unless there's a major realignment of the politic landscape. I just hope they have success spreading libertarian viewpoints.

In practice, most often I vote Republican. I vote LP only when there isn't a Republican who's better than the Democrat, and who can win. I don't want my third party vote to swing an election the wrong way, ever. Last time around (2008), I felt safe voting for Bob Barr (LP) over McCain and Obama, because Obama had a clear lock on my state, and since the Electoral College is 'winner take all by state', I couldn't do any harm by voting for the one I actually agreed with. I did vote to re-elect a Democrat for State Auditor, because he's highly competent, fair and well-respected by both parties.
 
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chinchillin

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Just as an example that might not be so good:

You have a good third party candidate,

You have a not so good Republican,

You have a really not good Democrat.

The top two split the vote and the Democrat wins. This is overly simplistic, but this is the danger of a SOMEWHAT popular third party candidate. They can actually get the guy you REALLY don't want elected.

i was going to post something along these lines.
 
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Virgil the Roman

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I am aligned mainly with the Constitution party; however, I am technically a republican. I've debated for sometime as to whether or not to make to the switch. I feel that most Democrats and Republicans are much too leftist and progressivist nowadays. I just wish the Constitution Party had a wider-base. I'd more fully be able to get behind them.
 
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