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Opinions on "Boondock Saints" ?

Caelum

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For those of you who have seen the movie. Obviously it is fictional. However, seeing as how some law-makers aren't upholding the law very well, let alone the laws of God. What do you think about vigilantes in the NAME of God? (Remember, I have yet to state my opinion, i'd rather gather yours first...)

Jesus' Prayer - Matthew 6:10
"...your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven..."

While this could be interpreted numerous ways, let me bring two to your attention:

1) God's will should be welcomed by the believer, and the believer should commit to doing God's will.

2) Evil was cast out of heaven by God's will. Shall evil be cast out of earth in God's will also?

Your thoughts?
 

SUNSTONE

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The bible says don't take revenge on your enemys, but to love your enemys.
If they killed others enemys and not there own, then they are taking the law into there own hands, and that breaks Roms 12, where we are subject to the Government.


I thought the movie was terrible, I need to watch it again, but I just couldn't see what some people saw in this movie. I guess I need to look at the vengence side of the movie.
 
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Caelum

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SUNSTONE said:
The bible says don't take revenge on your enemys, but to love your enemys.
If they killed others enemys and not there own, then they are taking the law into there own hands, and that breaks Roms 12, where we are subject to the Government.

Romans 13:1 - Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what god has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgement on themselves. (NIV)

Indeniable.

Romans 13:3 - For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. (NIV)

What about when they fail to do their job? Such as continuously releasing criminals into the streets to commit what they have already committed numerous times for in the past?

God's authority is higher than man's authority, even if man's governal authority is established by God. While it may be established by God, man's free will still taints the government. Their free will to dismiss and not pay attention to the evil doings of it's citizens is unruly. Then what? What next?
 
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Caelum

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Kelly said:
A friend has lended me the DVD but I've been hesitant to view it because of the subject matter/themes. Not the violence per se, but the approach.

Watch the movie? What's wrong with the approach? Living a christian life doen't mean living a blind life. Certainly you can't know your friend if you don't know your enemy.
 
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gracefulmouse

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I saw the movie because my brother liked it. My brother is 19 and a non-Christian (hasn't rejected it, just doesn't know Christ yet). Interestingly, he seemed to be a little more interested in Christianity afterwards as something that helps you determine and act on right vs. wrong. :idea:

The problem with vigilante justice in God's name is that we aren't God and we don't know what's going on to the extent he does. The law authorities aren't and don't either, but they have more collective information at their disposal. Additionally, the use of a system of weights and measures in meting out penalties (through the courts) is the best thing we can come up with on earth as imperfect humans to try to correct or suspend people from their wrongdoing. Again, we're not God and living people have yet to stand in his judgement. But we intervene on earth in cases where the general consensus of society is that these folks are impeding or endangering others.

DON'T get me wrong- even as a fairly mild-mannered person, I definitely entertain vigilante fantasies occasionally. The thing is, though, that I also know what it's like to be wrongly accused or chided (not by law enforcement, but by family or friends). If I saw something with my own eyes and knew it to be completely wrong- for example, if my grandfather was killed in front of me- I would be very tempted to kill that person. Despite that I know I should forgive. The rage would be too great and no other outcome would seem fitting.

Now as I recall, the stuff in Boondock Saints largely deals with scenarios where it's completely obvious (as in eyewitness evil) that the bad guys are bad guys. Hmmmm. I think that part of the appeal to this film is two Christians who choose to be waaay out there in the world, not at all closeted, acting constantly on their interpretation of their faith, and boldly standing up to evil. But that can be something we can achieve through means such as prison ministries, ministering in crime-ridden areas. Also prayer for the authorities (to improve them!) Active voting (for legislators and legislation that supports law enforcement) and community participation in community policing as well. Or going into policing ourselves! In fact, my grandfather was a cop by day and a lay preacher by weekend (in a church that was a blend of methodists, presbyterians and episcopalians).

Anyways, I think that the counter-measure to considering vigilante justice a la Boondock Saints is watching Mystic River. (SPOILER) In it, a local shady guy rather brutally murders the suspect in his daughter's murder (who happens to be a boyhood friend). The next day he finds out that the man did not murder his daughter and in fact (as the man had stated as he begged for his life) he had been murdering a pedophile the night of the girl's death. :cry: Vigilante justice twice over and unfortunately resulting in tragic consequences for both men. At the same time, the movie does acknowledge your point (Caelum) that the authorities can be lackluster- a third boyhood friend is the investigating detective who is struggling to figure out who murdered the girl. The girl's father says when the detective tells him that the third (now dead) friend was truly beating up a pedophile and who the real murderer of his daughter was something along the lines of "well, I'm glad you caught him. I wish you'd done it a bit sooner". Sorry, that last sentence is a bit mixed up but hopefully understandable.
 
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Caelum

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Great points gracefulmouse. Now, another twist to the question. As twisted as todays society is, ignorant to what happens after earthly death. Do you think God might choose a few people(such as he did in Boondock Saints, which is suggested by the "message" they received in the prison scene) to ultimately smack society in the face giving them a wake up call of all the things they are comitting, and, worse yet, getting away with? The movie implies that because of their calling by God, they were unable to get shot, even though *numerous* rounds were shot in their direction(although the one in the leg, yet, considering...) and were found by the local police as reflecting a form of "self-defense"...my question is, do you think this is possible? Our world has expanded so much since the times of Jesus, would it take such a remarkable stance against evil to give society, especially America, a wake-up call?
 
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jidujiao

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I'd love to see a discussion about "The Boondock Jihad." Wouldn't it be great if they had a film where Muslims killed those who were clearly and unarguably infidels who, according to their beliefs, deserved to die?

(Not attacking Islam here, just wondering if everyone would be so gung-ho anyways)
 
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Fineous_Reese

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jidujiao said:
I'd love to see a discussion about "The Boondock Jihad." Wouldn't it be great if they had a film where Muslims killed those who were clearly and unarguably infidels who, according to their beliefs, deserved to die?

(Not attacking Islam here, just wondering if everyone would be so gung-ho anyways)

that's easy, infidels are anyone who isn't a Muslim. in fact they're waiting for when the tree calls out "there is a jew behind me, come kill him!" and the rock cries "come slay the christian hiding behind me!"

-Fin
 
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jidujiao

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Okay, I just watched the movie. I thought it was pretty awful. I don't think I've ever seen a movie that uses f*** and its variants as much as this one did, but that's not the only reason it was bad. I thought Willem Dafoe was very poor.(I didn't know that cr*p was so offensive as to be deleted :scratch: )

One of the many problems with vigilante justice in the movie is that they weren't just killing who God told them to kill. They were killing whoever they themselves decided was evil, which was basically those connected to the Mafia.

Didn't any of you think the movie was incredibly ironic? In killing the "evil" men, the Saints became worse than any of them. Oh, wait, they had a revelation that it was God's will, so it's all okay.

I stand by my assertion that a movie like this about a pair of Islamic avengers would be met with a lot of anger.

This is also a good movie for the discussion of how Christians are portrayed in film.
 
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HeatherJay

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jidujiao said:
Okay, I just watched the movie. I thought it was pretty awful. I don't think I've ever seen a movie that uses f*** and its variants as much as this one did, but that's not the only reason it was bad. I thought Willem Dafoe was very poor.(I didn't know that cr*p was so offensive as to be deleted :scratch: )

One of the many problems with vigilante justice in the movie is that they weren't just killing who God told them to kill. They were killing whoever they themselves decided was evil, which was basically those connected to the Mafia.

Didn't any of you think the movie was incredibly ironic? In killing the "evil" men, the Saints became worse than any of them. Oh, wait, they had a revelation that it was God's will, so it's all okay.

I stand by my assertion that a movie like this about a pair of Islamic avengers would be met with a lot of anger.

This is also a good movie for the discussion of how Christians are portrayed in film.
LOL, well, it's arguable that anyone would have considered them "good" Catholic boys to begin with. Although they did pray. ;) The movie is OBVIOUSLY not meant to portray decent Christian behavior and it should be watched with that attitude going into it. Hehe...it's DEFINITELY not meant to be a religious movie, despite the description given by some.

Love, Heather
 
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Pope Gonzo

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Like everyone's said, the movie isn't supposed to portray typical Christian behavior. It's there to put the thought into everyone's head: what if someone decided to take the law into their own hands? Not going after petty things like shoplifters or whatever, but pimps, rapists, "mafiosos who get caught with 20 kilos of crack and are out the next day on bail," etc. Basically, getting the people that the law can't touch. It's meant to be interesting food for thought.

And aside from the morals, the movie was incredibly well done. Willem Dafoe's acting was incredible, as was that of the rest of the characters, not to mention how the movie was put together. Absolutely brilliant.
 
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gracefulmouse

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No, I don't think so. The God of Abraham and Isaac is our God today. The teachings outlined in the New Testament were meant to be timeless. In it it is clearly stated that we are to act in certain ways (basically non-violent) as disciples.

The world has always been broken and always been twisted. It was then, it is now. The Romans did horrendous things to Christians and He didn't send anyone then. What we've been given is meant to suffice.

In some cases, we are or do take up arms against particular evils in the world. I'll skip the debate over Iraq and get back to WWII, where there was an undebatable mass evil that we needed to fight against and did. God didn't send anyone specially invincible, we just had to do our thing in our own way, in this broken world where terrible things happen, in our cities, in America, and in the world in general.

Christ was what we needed. He is and was our hope. He was that special person, that otherworldly person- placed in human form. We don't have anyone else now, we just have to work with the teachings and the hope that we've been given.

This is a really neat discussion, thanks for starting it Caelum!
 
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