I joined this forum the other day, made one post (see below) and got permanently banned. I wanted to share it with some people. They'll ban me again and I won't return - it's a promise.
I will say in looking for the debate and only receiving fear of my bleliefs.....no reason - no substantive arguments against.....it has only served to strengthen my opinions. ChristianForums.com is a ministry of fear and avoiding any substantive talk about the Bible or our maker makes this whole forum ..... I want to say a joke but the topic is way too serious.
I'd add that this was originally posted in the non-Christian unorthodox debate section.....which seems very appropriate. I'll post it anywhere I want now. Since they didn't follow the rules, I won't either.
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About a year and a half ago I came to the realization that I needed to find out why we are all here - I needed to find God. I was raised in a old school Catholic household (8 kids in the family) and, to make a long story short, exposed a great deal to a non-denomenational fundamentalist (evangelical type) Protestant religion. For the first 15 years of my adult life, right up till now, I have absolutely ignored religion. The only time I talked to God was when a airplane I was flying on hit turbulence.
So, I started my search and quickly narrowed it down strictly to religions that believe in the God of Abraham. I took the steps of enrolling in a Bible course at a Baptist church, reading the Bible daily (most days at least), reading everything I could find on every religion out there and most importantly - praying to God for help. I researched and eventually ruled out many religions, like Mormonism (just weird), Islam (a number of issues, inconsistencies with Hebrew Scriptures was a big part though) and the Catholic Church (beliefs outside scripture, history/hierarchy is scary).
In my research I came across a book from the Jehovah's Witnesses. I read it from cover to cover and was, to put it lightly, stunned. I considered the Witnesses a door knocking nuisance up until that point, and figured them to be as kooky as the Mormons, but their teachings while not mainstream - well, they made sense.
I contacted them and have been studying since January now. I even began attending the Kingdom Hall weekly. I really cannot find any flaws in their beliefs. As a group they are the most dedicated, friendly and knowledgeable Christians I have ever met.
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I was wondering if others out there have studied with them and what - in particular - keeps you away. Here are just some of the points that I find most strong about the Jehovah's Witnesses (in no particular order):
- The organization is amazing. No one makes money. No one gets paid. Everyone is dedicated to teaching the faith to others. There is no 'supreme leader' of the organization. In all my studies and visits to the Hall they have never asked for money - not once, ever. I had to ask them where to donate money! Finally, after seeing a Kingdom Hall you know they aren't spending the money on opulence.
- The Jehovah's Witnesses are worldwide, but aren't liked by the world we live in, much like how Jesus said it would be. Compare this to the leader of the world superpower right now - a 'Christian' - an evangelical.
- It's the only worldwide religion that if everyone was a member of it - there would be no war.
- Jehovah - they speak of God by his name. I was amazed to see how the many Bible versions have tried to wipe it out. Every Bible has it in there though. (for the record - when I study with them I use KJV and ASV Bibles only). How many religions actually use that name? It's the name of God - and I dare say that most religions rarely, if ever, use it!
- Their belief that Hell is not eternal torment is scriptually sound and more indicative of a 'loving God'.
- The Trinity. Never mentioned in the Bible. It's a mystery where there doesn't need to be one. Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.
- Paradise earth. Again, scriptually sound and it makes sense. God builds the world for Adam, he (Adam!) messes up - and the end result is we all go to heaven? No, we inherit the perfect earth Adam was supposed to live in. As it says in the Lord's prayer: "Thy Kingdom Come, thy will be done, on EARTH as it is in Heaven"...God's Kingdom will be on earth.
- They were the first religion to ever explain to me exactly what Jesus did and who he was and have it make sense. He's the Son of God and the greatest man who ever lived.
- Knowledge. They really study the Bible - I mean really study it - in their meetings and privately. Compared to other religious organizations - where it is my opinion & experience that they often hide the teachings or only teach sound byte mantra's.
- The Cross. The Bible says that we shouldn't make carvings or images. The cross is a disturbing signal given what it represents and not the best way to think of Jesus in my opinion. Jesus should be thought of as a King, not nailed to a cross...it is my opinion that only Satan could want us to think of his love by means of a torture device.
- They interpret the Bible strictly to what it says. It is my opinion, after studying the Bible, that things many religions are based on, like the Rapture, Trinity, woshiping Mary, and much of the ceremony in church services - are not scriptually based.
- They never risk offending Jehovah. They don't cut corners, and completely avoid what could be construed as Pagan based holidays such as Easter (which evidence points to being named after a false God and based on a pagan celebration of fertility - even the name 'Easter' is the name of a false god- it won't let me give a link, but this information is out there if anyone wants to look) and Christmas (which evidence points to being adopted from the Pagan celebration of the vernal equinox (star on tree, etc)). Based on the Old Testament - Jehovah wasn't happy when the Jews celebrated pagan holidays, even if it was wrapped in the context of worshipping him - and we should avoid doing the same.
- They stay out of Governments way. They are already living for the Kingdom of God. I can't justify supporting religions that take political stances, most pro-Republican - who are opposed to offering health care to all people, work mainly for the rich, start wars, etc. The Democrats are no better though. They are governments of man, and are doomed anyway. There is one government we should concern ourselves with and be willing to die for, as Christians, and it ain't the USA.
There are other reasons, but those are some of the high level things that really seperate the Witnesses in my eyes. I'd like to hear what others have to say, good and bad. I want a debate and to hear arguments - just know that I'll argue back.
(moderators - I've edited all sections that you didn't like the first time. Hopefully this one doesn't break any rules.)
I will say in looking for the debate and only receiving fear of my bleliefs.....no reason - no substantive arguments against.....it has only served to strengthen my opinions. ChristianForums.com is a ministry of fear and avoiding any substantive talk about the Bible or our maker makes this whole forum ..... I want to say a joke but the topic is way too serious.
I'd add that this was originally posted in the non-Christian unorthodox debate section.....which seems very appropriate. I'll post it anywhere I want now. Since they didn't follow the rules, I won't either.
.............................................
About a year and a half ago I came to the realization that I needed to find out why we are all here - I needed to find God. I was raised in a old school Catholic household (8 kids in the family) and, to make a long story short, exposed a great deal to a non-denomenational fundamentalist (evangelical type) Protestant religion. For the first 15 years of my adult life, right up till now, I have absolutely ignored religion. The only time I talked to God was when a airplane I was flying on hit turbulence.
So, I started my search and quickly narrowed it down strictly to religions that believe in the God of Abraham. I took the steps of enrolling in a Bible course at a Baptist church, reading the Bible daily (most days at least), reading everything I could find on every religion out there and most importantly - praying to God for help. I researched and eventually ruled out many religions, like Mormonism (just weird), Islam (a number of issues, inconsistencies with Hebrew Scriptures was a big part though) and the Catholic Church (beliefs outside scripture, history/hierarchy is scary).
In my research I came across a book from the Jehovah's Witnesses. I read it from cover to cover and was, to put it lightly, stunned. I considered the Witnesses a door knocking nuisance up until that point, and figured them to be as kooky as the Mormons, but their teachings while not mainstream - well, they made sense.
I contacted them and have been studying since January now. I even began attending the Kingdom Hall weekly. I really cannot find any flaws in their beliefs. As a group they are the most dedicated, friendly and knowledgeable Christians I have ever met.
----------------------------------
I was wondering if others out there have studied with them and what - in particular - keeps you away. Here are just some of the points that I find most strong about the Jehovah's Witnesses (in no particular order):
- The organization is amazing. No one makes money. No one gets paid. Everyone is dedicated to teaching the faith to others. There is no 'supreme leader' of the organization. In all my studies and visits to the Hall they have never asked for money - not once, ever. I had to ask them where to donate money! Finally, after seeing a Kingdom Hall you know they aren't spending the money on opulence.
- The Jehovah's Witnesses are worldwide, but aren't liked by the world we live in, much like how Jesus said it would be. Compare this to the leader of the world superpower right now - a 'Christian' - an evangelical.
- It's the only worldwide religion that if everyone was a member of it - there would be no war.
- Jehovah - they speak of God by his name. I was amazed to see how the many Bible versions have tried to wipe it out. Every Bible has it in there though. (for the record - when I study with them I use KJV and ASV Bibles only). How many religions actually use that name? It's the name of God - and I dare say that most religions rarely, if ever, use it!
- Their belief that Hell is not eternal torment is scriptually sound and more indicative of a 'loving God'.
- The Trinity. Never mentioned in the Bible. It's a mystery where there doesn't need to be one. Jesus is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.
- Paradise earth. Again, scriptually sound and it makes sense. God builds the world for Adam, he (Adam!) messes up - and the end result is we all go to heaven? No, we inherit the perfect earth Adam was supposed to live in. As it says in the Lord's prayer: "Thy Kingdom Come, thy will be done, on EARTH as it is in Heaven"...God's Kingdom will be on earth.
- They were the first religion to ever explain to me exactly what Jesus did and who he was and have it make sense. He's the Son of God and the greatest man who ever lived.
- Knowledge. They really study the Bible - I mean really study it - in their meetings and privately. Compared to other religious organizations - where it is my opinion & experience that they often hide the teachings or only teach sound byte mantra's.
- The Cross. The Bible says that we shouldn't make carvings or images. The cross is a disturbing signal given what it represents and not the best way to think of Jesus in my opinion. Jesus should be thought of as a King, not nailed to a cross...it is my opinion that only Satan could want us to think of his love by means of a torture device.
- They interpret the Bible strictly to what it says. It is my opinion, after studying the Bible, that things many religions are based on, like the Rapture, Trinity, woshiping Mary, and much of the ceremony in church services - are not scriptually based.
- They never risk offending Jehovah. They don't cut corners, and completely avoid what could be construed as Pagan based holidays such as Easter (which evidence points to being named after a false God and based on a pagan celebration of fertility - even the name 'Easter' is the name of a false god- it won't let me give a link, but this information is out there if anyone wants to look) and Christmas (which evidence points to being adopted from the Pagan celebration of the vernal equinox (star on tree, etc)). Based on the Old Testament - Jehovah wasn't happy when the Jews celebrated pagan holidays, even if it was wrapped in the context of worshipping him - and we should avoid doing the same.
- They stay out of Governments way. They are already living for the Kingdom of God. I can't justify supporting religions that take political stances, most pro-Republican - who are opposed to offering health care to all people, work mainly for the rich, start wars, etc. The Democrats are no better though. They are governments of man, and are doomed anyway. There is one government we should concern ourselves with and be willing to die for, as Christians, and it ain't the USA.
There are other reasons, but those are some of the high level things that really seperate the Witnesses in my eyes. I'd like to hear what others have to say, good and bad. I want a debate and to hear arguments - just know that I'll argue back.
(moderators - I've edited all sections that you didn't like the first time. Hopefully this one doesn't break any rules.)