[Open] Support thread for non-punitive households (Please NO DEBATE)

Mama_Piadosa said:

OK-if I admitt to reading the first 4 pages and the last one- can I still join you guys?

I really struggle with the medium kiddos- the 2 year old and the teen- the ones that are suppossed to be hard- really aren't all that challenging for me right now.

My 10 yo dd- is being disrespectful and outright refusing to do stuff- oh and she is pushing he brother's buttons on purpose all the time.

My 8 yo ds has emotional issues and I am just tightrope walking trying to avoid a rage.

anyway- glad to see this thread.

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Hi and welcome! It's good to see some new faces as it's been kinda quiet in here, and I have found this to be such a helpful thread.

Do you have any dieas what might be causing the middle kids to be so challenging at the moment?

I'm learning so much from this thread, thanks everyone

Just wanted to share some success-
In case you don't know K has bipolar disorder that really effects his behavior.
I presented the therapist with "The 5 Steps" and she thought it was a great idea.
We have been doing this with K for the past 3 weeks and it has really helped- especially helped me to keep my cool- and K does not seem to escalate as much.

That's wonderful.

I had a sort of epiphany this morning reading through some other posts around CF. That was we never set up our family to be punitive. Yet for 4 years we were trying to force our family set up into this mold because that is what we were told was the "christian" way to parent. After changing we still have challenges but our whole household runs more smoothly because to be gentle fits with what we unknowingly selected. And we've been able to model our own faith better to our children.

Just felt like sharing.

Yay! Thanks for sharing!

I totally agree about gentle parenting making things calmer around the house. We never majorly got into punitive modes 'cos ours are still too young, but sitting on the stairs and shouting were used. Now that we are working hard to become completely NP, grace-based, gentle parents, everyone is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much happier and there is so much more peace in the house otw.

I am new to this post..........but i have a question. what in the world is non punitive punishment? I have never heard of it. from some of the responses, I could use it. My household is nothing but stress and I can't get my kids to calm down and think for themselves. When i do give them choices, they don't making me more frustrated than ever. any help would greatly be appreciated!

Well I'm not the best person to answer, as I'm pretty new to parenting (never mind discipline), but basically as I understand it, non-punitive parenting means not "punishing" your children for errors and breaking rules, but rather helping them understand better behaviour and gently guiding them in the right direction.

So for example, a child throwing a tantrum will not get a spanking for it, nor will he be sent to time-out or a similar punishment. Instead, the parent will help him understand that the emotions he's feeling (frustration, anger, etc.) are OK to feel, but that he's not allowed to hit anybody or scream to get rid of them. Instead, he can (for example) hit a pillow, do an angry dance, or something else to help him calm down.

It's a mindset of rather trying to understand your kids' behavior and teaching them how to behave, instead of setting rules, waiting for them to be broken, and then punishing the children.

For the last couple days David has been telling me he is hungry at bedtime, so I took him seriously and gave him something to eat. Except he ends up not eating the items given. So, not hungry. Today at dinner I told him "Better eat up because after this, there's nothing else to eat, no eating at bedtime." I reminded him of this several times, but of course, come bedtime its all "I'm hungry, can I have something to eat?"

"No, no you can't. I told you no more after this at dinner."

He does not take no for an answer, he keeps asking as many times as possible.... over and over, and if he thinks I won't give him that he starts in on smoething else.

This happens other times too.... I say no, he keeps asking and asking and asking and telling me i should give it to him because he asked in his nice voice. It is really exasperating me, and how I have been coping is not good..... I keep saying no or just plain tune it out and finally I YELL "I SAID NO" and finally he will let it go and start something else. There must be another way..... please give advice

illinoismommy said:

This happens other times too.... I say no, he keeps asking and asking and asking and telling me i should give it to him because he asked in his nice voice. It is really exasperating me, and how I have been coping is not good..... I keep saying no or just plain tune it out and finally I YELL "I SAID NO" and finally he will let it go and start something else. There must be another way..... please give advice

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I don't know that I really have any advice, but Natalie does this too. Sometimes she will stop if I make sure to take the time to really explain to her why I'm saying no (ex: "No, I told you that you don't get any more food after supper, and I don't think you are really hungry."), but not always.

For example, yesterday at the park, another mom had brought a big bag of candy for her kids and asked me if Natalie could have some. Natalie got two pieces and I told her that was it and she would not be able to have any more. But she kept going over and bugging the lady. :o I guess maybe I should have explained to her that I didn't want her to eat too much candy because it could make her not feel good and not be hungry for lunch time.... I didn't realize that I didn't tell her that until just now.

It's hard working with this age, I think, because it's easy to expect them to understand our reasons for things without spelling it out the way they need it to be. My DH and I had a conversation about this, how kids don't respect rules that seem arbitrary from their perspective...knowing that we have a real reason other than "because I said so," even if they can't really understand our reasoning, seems to help.

illinoismommy said:

For the last couple days ... There must be another way..... please give advice

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ok mind you i have not tried this yet--- but the book i am reading suggest making it an outrageous wish and fantasizing about it with the child... "you are hungry- i bet you wish there was a chef right here in your room that would cook whatever you wanted when you wanted it- what would you order from a chef- ..." kinda looks like playful parenting too.

Janet- you can also (I wrote a bit in the other thread) try just telling him "Sometimes mommy is going to say no because she thinks it's the right thing to do. No matter how many times you ask me for X, mommy's answer is going to be no. I love you and I want what's best for you, and that means sometimes I will have to say no."

Some ideas for what to do when hubby starts to slip back into a punitive mindset, please.

FWIW - It is extra difficult to suggest a different way to him right now because he is also quiting smoking and very irritable. But advice is really wanted anyhow.

I try to gently remind my hubby- that this is not the kind of dad, the kind of person he wants to be-- and that he's gonna feel horrible about it later.

My husband does NOT do well with criticism of any kind. and particularly struggles hearing styff 'in the moment'--so I have to be very gentle and remind him that I love him. I also ask him to just go take a break- and let me get this one....and he can get the next one.

Yay for him quitting smoking!! I wish mine would!

Rose - just wanted to say thank you so much for the book recommendations (Crary and the How to Talk one). I FINALLY got hold of them and I'm really finding them so interesting and encouraging. Thank you!!!

As to steering husbands - I often just say 'gentle' (in a gentle voice) when he's about to start dealing with a behavioural problem. That seems to work quite well. I also give little instructions softly, like "hug him" or little reminders like, "tired" or "no food". And I guess the thing about discussing it when there isn't a crisis rather than during or immediately afterwards, just like with kids, applies too? Go to the Arms of Love website (www.aolff.com) and show him the introduction about why non-punitve is better. Then you both give your opinions on what she says? Just some ideas...

Illinoismommy - I've found both Rose's suggestion and the fantasy thing to work at different times. Also humour and sometimes just plain tickling! Occasionally my ds does not need to be taken seriously - esp. when he knows he's pushing it a bit. I would probably say something like, "You silly billy - you know mama's not going to give you crackers now! Silly billy silly billy" etc, the last repetitions accompanied by some light tickling and cuddles. We have a running joke that we sometimes tickle him when he's in bed and then pretend to complain that he's not lying still, so I would then segue into that... It's hard to describe and easier to demonstrate

Mini success stories:

1. Oldest son asked to have a sleepover and I suggested one particular friend of his. He reacted really violently no - although he used to describe her as his princess and want to marry her! I asked him why and he really did a good job of talking about how he didn't like her being angry and how that made him sad and then he wnates to cry, then he suggested his first solution (see me) and I said and what if I'm not there and he said "Find a policeman" !

2. When I turned the TV off tonight he got mad (as he almost always does) and hit me lightly (BIG improvement, used to be harder). I looked at him and that was enough, he knew he shouldn't have done it and felt bad. I asked what he could do to make it better but he wa sobviously still in some kind of shame spiral so I said, "well, then I'll give you a hug" and he said "And I'll give you a BIG hug" and he did!

If anyone's skimming the thread wondering about non punitive parenting and whether it works - persevere - it really really does!

Oh that's great!!!! That's really great-- thank you for sharing your praise and encouragement... I really needed it right now. My kids are driving me batty

We're working on it but he's still irritating me, I heard him doing it to my husband today too. He knows when we say no it means no but he finds it necessary to ask again and again anyway.

It may be hard to believe, but it will pass!

HUGS!

illinoismommy said:

For the last couple days David has been telling me he is hungry at bedtime, so I took him seriously and gave him something to eat. Except he ends up not eating the items given. So, not hungry. Today at dinner I told him "Better eat up because after this, there's nothing else to eat, no eating at bedtime." I reminded him of this several times, but of course, come bedtime its all "I'm hungry, can I have something to eat?"

"No, no you can't. I told you no more after this at dinner."

He does not take no for an answer, he keeps asking as many times as possible.... over and over, and if he thinks I won't give him that he starts in on smoething else.

This happens other times too.... I say no, he keeps asking and asking and asking and telling me i should give it to him because he asked in his nice voice. It is really exasperating me, and how I have been coping is not good..... I keep saying no or just plain tune it out and finally I YELL "I SAID NO" and finally he will let it go and start something else. There must be another way..... please give advice

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I'm sorry, I can't remember how old your son is--3?4? My guess is that he is trying out the rules--he asked in his nice voice as he reminded you I think he is trying to make sure the nice voice really works (quite the scientist, lol!). At two, DD likes to bring me something she wants--even if it is something she knows is off limits--and say "thank you " very brightly as she gives it to me. (In other words, she is saying thank you before I give it to her in the hope that I will, in fact, give it to her.)

What I would do is have a snack bowl that you set out a little before bedtime with whatever snack you're okay with. He can have it or not, but there it is. (I'm thinking of something like a small bowl of grapes or berries that you can pop right back into the fridge after bed.) DD has to eat right before bed because of the frequent feeding thing, and it is really effective to let her decide when to have her snack.

Plus, it keeps the whole thing from turning into a catering service!

oh..i never noticed this thread (i think i am blind to the stickies for some reason!) Glad to know this thread is here. i strive for gentle parenting. Its hard sometimes, especially when my teenager is being an absolute jerk and when i havent slept in days. When time permits ill read through this thread and start commenting.

I am brand new to these forums and thought I'd say hello.
Another non-punitive mama here