[OPEN]Just a question

[Talmidah]

I'm staying out of any discussions, as it certainly is not my place here.

But I have a question, and figured here is the best place to ask, and I'll get sincere answers.

When a messianic sees an observant Jew or community of Jews, what do they see? Do they see a person or people about whom they can say something like, "cool, those people are living out their beliefs, worshipping Hashem, etc" and then just leave them alone to go about their business? Or do they see them as targets? As a person or people whom they must evangelize? I think there is more I'm trying to ask, but can't figure how to say it, so I'll leave it at this and hope you can understand me.

I don't mean offense, and I'm sorry if my jumbled wording implies such. I'm just curious and seek understanding.

Thank you.

 

[stone]

I think i'm too new at this to give a good answer. I've always held a deep respect and think it is insulting to them to think of them as targets to evangelize to.

 

[Hadassah]

Personally, I don't see *anyone* as a Target. Everyone is a person! ESPECIALLY people living out their Torah faith!

But, if I am asked why I do things, or what my faith is about.. etc- I will give honest answers. If this leads to dialogue... all the better!

If someone's eyes are opened, the veil is lifted and they see Messiah.. there ya go.

If not, well, the seed is planted. But never is anyone a target!

 

[Sammydiggins]

I just want to say that I love the Jewish people. When I see a Jew, I see one of my bethren with different views, just as I see a non-Torah observant Christian. I hold both with the same esteem. As for a target...I don't see anyone as a 'target'. More like a potential friend, and I don't neccassarily run around looking for potential friends, it may just happen sometimes that I run into a random person, and begin talking to them. A friendship is made, and then as they get to know me, I would witness to them. It's true there are missionaries that go out to witness to complete strangers, but I feel the Elohim has given us the friends we have so we can witness to them, and fellowship with them as well.

 

[Tishri1]

I get excited, like when you have a crush on someone but they dont know it and you see them at a store or restaurant...you dont go up to them as they dont even know you, but since you are the one with the crush, you want to see them, with out them seeing you, seeing them...does that make sence?

Oh!!!! and forget it! If they happen to look interested in you!...wow! That would just make your day, week, even year... and you just dream of the time when you are truely friends (or related )

sounds strange I know but then I never said I wasnt strange

 

[Tishri1]

That is why it hurts me when some Jews are offended that I am Messianic....It's like they think I'm out to get them when actually I have a crush on them

Also I have to say that ABBA put this love for them in my heart, I wasn't born with this weird feeling towards Jews... ABBA put it in my heart and I am glad it's there....I love that I love them!


Oh And also the church on the other hand will sometimes get the wrong message too and then I can get critisism from both sides

That is truely how I feel though, what can I say I have a crush on Yeshua's brethren

 

[ChavaK]

Personally, I don't see *anyone* as a Target. Everyone is a person! ESPECIALLY people living out their Torah faith!
If someone's eyes are opened, the veil is lifted and they see Messiah.. there ya go.

Can you clarify what you mean by this statement?
Do you mean Jews are blind and do not understand
their own scriptures? Or am I misinterepting what you
are saying?
Just trying to understand your POV

 

[christinepro]

Jews and Gentiles should know about our great Messiah and they should see the links between the New Testament and old. My mother doesn't like the Old Testament and I'm sure there are allot of people out there who feel the same way. I believe in evangelizing slowly so you have an open.

 

[Wags]

If I see any observant Jews I figure they must be from out of town and welcome them to the community.

Jewish families are few and far between in my neck of the woods. The clinic where we had my son's bris done is still talking about it. I don't think most of them had ever seen anyone in a kippah before let alone a roomfull!

 

[Sammydiggins]

I get excited, like when you have a crush on someone but they dont know it and you see them at a store or restaurant...you dont go up to them as they dont even know you, but since you are the one with the crush, you want to see them, with out them seeing you, seeing them...does that make sence?

Oh!!!! and forget it! If they happen to look interested in you!...wow! That would just make your day, week, even year... and you just dream of the time when you are truely friends (or related )

sounds strange I know but then I never said I wasnt strange

Yeah! I kind of feel the same way, I've never thought of it in this way though. I love watching Fiddler on the Roof, besides liking musicals, I really love seeing the Jewish people. When someone comments about my faith, and they say that's for the Jews, I tell them we should all be Jews or at least Messianic, since that's my faith.

 

[Sammydiggins]

Yeah, and about criticism believe me, I know that too. People seem to get the idea that as being Messianic I'm going 'too far'...How can you go too far for Yahweh? I love being Messianic (I was once a Southern Baptist). I guess if anybody gets offended and criticizes me, then I'm doing my job...just a thought.

 

[Bon]

I get excited, like when you have a crush on someone but they dont know it and you see them at a store or restaurant...you dont go up to them as they dont even know you, but since you are the one with the crush, you want to see them, with out them seeing you, seeing them...does that make sence?

Oh!!!! and forget it! If they happen to look interested in you!...wow! That would just make your day, week, even year... and you just dream of the time when you are truely friends (or related )

sounds strange I know but then I never said I wasnt strange

Hehe!.....You're funny......But strangely....it makes sense....Maybe I'm strange too.

 

[Tishri1]

big squeez

 

[Hadassah]

Personally, I don't see *anyone* as a Target. Everyone is a person! ESPECIALLY people living out their Torah faith!
If someone's eyes are opened, the veil is lifted and they see Messiah.. there ya go.

Can you clarify what you mean by this statement?
Do you mean Jews are blind and do not understand
their own scriptures? Or am I misinterepting what you
are saying?
Just trying to understand your POV

Remember the passage about Moshe and how bright and lit up his face was after he spent time with El on the Mountain so long? How the people were "scared" of him and he put on a veil over his face to dim the light?

Moshe could have taken the other "Other" option, and instead instructed them to the point that they understood why he shone so and was so happy about spending time with Yah... but instead chose the easy out to not offend anyone and veiled his face.

We are told in the writings of Paul, that when people hear Torah and do not see Messiah in it (as believers do/ought to) that the veil is on their hearts, as it was in the day of Moshe from the mountain.

Just as the veil was once on our hearts when we didn't/couldn't/wouldn't/didn't want to understand Torah and Messiah being Torah, and Messiah teaching Torah, and the shadows of the things Messiah was to do, did, and is still to do on the feasts and fast days; so too do others who do not understand.


I know it sounds kind of "out there" or "flukey" but think of it this way... when you explain your torah observance to "Average Joe, USA" - he doesn't understand.

Partially because of the cultural difference/history differences and a myriad of other reasons (one such as: maybe it just isn't his time to understand yet)...

hope that helps some and I haven't muddied the water any further

 

[Sammydiggins]

Just as the veil was once on our hearts when we didn't/couldn't/wouldn't/didn't want to understand Torah and Messiah being Torah, and Messiah teaching Torah, and the shadows of the things Messiah was to do, did, and is still to do on the feasts and fast days; so too do others who do not understand.


I know it sounds kind of "out there" or "flukey" but think of it this way... when you explain your torah observance to "Average Joe, USA" - he doesn't understand.

Partially because of the cultural difference/history differences and a myriad of other reasons (one such as: maybe it just isn't his time to understand yet)...

hope that helps some and I haven't muddied the water any further

It's sad that they don't understand. It's one of my greatest pleasures to observe Torah because, it pleases Yahweh, but no one understands it. They can't grasp why we observe Torah. Refusing to observe Torah is like becoming the citizen of another country but, refusing to obey the rules of the country because, you were born somewhere else.

 

[visionary]

My one and only experience with a jew was at work, when one of the workers said that her husband would like to talk with me. She had heard me talk with someone else about my faith, and gone home to tell her husband. He came to work and started asking me questions, and it was then I learned that he was a cohin. A blood cohin but political in faith. I was fascinated by his curiosity and questions. HAve not talked with him much since, but it was an interesting experience for me. Maybe he will come back with more some day.

 

[Tishri1]

It's sad that they don't understand. It's one of my greatest pleasures to observe Torah because, it pleases Yahweh, but no one understands it. They can't grasp why we observe Torah. Refusing to observe Torah is like becoming the citizen of another country but, refusing to obey the rules of the country because, you were born somewhere else.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Sammydiggins again.

 

[Tishri1]

I'm staying out of any discussions, as it certainly is not my place here.

But I have a question, and figured here is the best place to ask, and I'll get sincere answers.

When a messianic sees an observant Jew or community of Jews, what do they see? Do they see a person or people about whom they can say something like, "cool, those people are living out their beliefs, worshipping Hashem, etc" and then just leave them alone to go about their business? Or do they see them as targets? As a person or people whom they must evangelize? I think there is more I'm trying to ask, but can't figure how to say it, so I'll leave it at this and hope you can understand me.

I don't mean offense, and I'm sorry if my jumbled wording implies such. I'm just curious and seek understanding.

Thank you.

bump

 

[ContraMundum]

Thank goodness this is an open thread.....this is the most personally challenging thing I've read at CF for a while.

When I see observant Jews the first thing that crosses my mind is "I hope they don't know Mom" and I want to run and hide, avoid eye contact and the like. I think "here comes a lot of nosey questions". Once I get over that initial reaction, my feelings become more mixed. I hurt because I feel some distance from my community but at the same time know that my faith is both logical and life-changing.

I never witness to my cousins and brothers, and I don't know why. I witness to everyone else, usually with great results. I really just miss being part of the community, but at the same time glad not to be in it, if that makes sense.

So, I guess my answer to this question is that my feelings are mixed, but I don't regard my Jewish brethren to be targets or "lost" or anything like that. I just want to get alongside them and talk about anything but religion. It's strange, but I'd rather just be their friend.

It's a strange place to be. I don't feel like I fit in with the Jewish community in any sense outside of family any longer, but at the same time I don't feel recieved by Jewish believers in Christ either, unless they attend my church of course.

 

[Wags]

Refusing to observe Torah is like becoming the citizen of another country but, refusing to obey the rules of the country because, you were born somewhere else.

A very apt illustration!