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Open Carry and Robbery

cow451

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rich1540

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The gun stolen, a Walther P22, comes in a rather fetching pink. Anybody want to buy my cloak?

Walther-P22-Nickel_0103.jpg
 
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ThatRobGuy

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You always here of some fluke incidents of super-brazen criminals like this...very risky on the part of the mugger...especially if he was bluffing and the gun owner decided to call his bluff.

I remember one such incident that was reported in one of those "dumbest criminals" articles where a guy tried to rob a gun store...

However, I do find the comments in this thread a bit puzzling...

If we evaluated all of the armed robberies that take place, the overwhelming majority of them are still directly against targets who the perpetrator knows to be unarmed.

Yet, a rare fluke instance where the robber knows the victim to be armed occurs, and folks are taking the "told ya so" attitude. Not really grounded in reality if you ask me.

The DOJ actually did a grant-funded study of felonious armed robbers in various states to determine the efficacy of armed civilian as it pertain to deterring the actions of a would-be robber. The prisoners they studied were the career-criminal types who had made a living off of robbing.

The prisoners, studied under a grant from the National Institute of Justice of the U.S. Justice Department, were incarcerated in Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nevada and Oklahoma.

Percentage who avoided a target due to knowing that the target was armed: 74%

Percentage who attempted to find out ahead of time if their potential target might be armed: 81%

The report also went on to say:
In states with widespread gun ownership and tough punishment for gun misuse, criminals surveyed were often unarmed: 54% in Oklahoma, 62% in Georgia, 40% in Maryland, 43% in Missouri, and 35% in Florida. In Massachusetts, however, only 29% of the felon-respondents were unarmed. In that state, it is difficult lawfully to acquire a firearm, and the illegal carrying of a firearm, rather than the criminal misuse of a gun, is subject to the mandatory penalty. The survey data indicate that the criminals' fear of an armed victim relates directly to the severity of the gun laws in the state surveyed. Where gun laws are less restrictive, such as Georgia and Maryland, criminals think twice before running the risk of facing an armed victim; they are much less concerned in Massachusetts.

Fifty-six percent of the felons surveyed agreed that "A criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun;" 74% agreed that "One reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot."

A 57% majority agreed that "Most criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."



...and really, all of this makes perfect sense when you look at it from the criminal's perspective. Obviously, the whole reason a criminal is carrying in the first place is because they're not entirely confident of a successful outcome when attempting their robbery when "the odds are even" so to speak. Most criminals typically want to execute their "mission" when they know they're at a clear position of advantage.

Are there a few criminals who are reckless enough to attempt something on an armed victim?...sure, there will always be some people who are at a 10 on the crazy-meter (thus the kind that still try to attack cops who are openly carrying), however, the vast majority are more opportunistic than they are suicidal/reckless...and thus an armed target is always going to be less desirable than an unarmed one.
 
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cow451

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You always here of some fluke incidents of super-brazen criminals like this...very risky on the part of the mugger...especially if he was bluffing and the gun owner decided to call his bluff.

I remember one such incident that was reported in one of those "dumbest criminals" articles where a guy tried to rob a gun store...

However, I do find the comments in this thread a bit puzzling...

If we evaluated all of the armed robberies that take place, the overwhelming majority of them are still directly against targets who the perpetrator knows to be unarmed.

Yet, a rare fluke instance where the robber knows the victim to be armed occurs, and folks are taking the "told ya so" attitude. Not really grounded in reality if you ask me.

The DOJ actually did a grant-funded study of felonious armed robbers in various states to determine the efficacy of armed civilian as it pertain to deterring the actions of a would-be robber. The prisoners they studied were the career-criminal types who had made a living off of robbing.

The prisoners, studied under a grant from the National Institute of Justice of the U.S. Justice Department, were incarcerated in Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nevada and Oklahoma.

Percentage who avoided a target due to knowing that the target was armed: 74%

Percentage who attempted to find out ahead of time if their potential target might be armed: 81%

The report also went on to say:
In states with widespread gun ownership and tough punishment for gun misuse, criminals surveyed were often unarmed: 54% in Oklahoma, 62% in Georgia, 40% in Maryland, 43% in Missouri, and 35% in Florida. In Massachusetts, however, only 29% of the felon-respondents were unarmed. In that state, it is difficult lawfully to acquire a firearm, and the illegal carrying of a firearm, rather than the criminal misuse of a gun, is subject to the mandatory penalty. The survey data indicate that the criminals' fear of an armed victim relates directly to the severity of the gun laws in the state surveyed. Where gun laws are less restrictive, such as Georgia and Maryland, criminals think twice before running the risk of facing an armed victim; they are much less concerned in Massachusetts.

Fifty-six percent of the felons surveyed agreed that "A criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun;" 74% agreed that "One reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot."

A 57% majority agreed that "Most criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."


...and really, all of this makes perfect sense when you look at it from the criminal's perspective. Obviously, the whole reason a criminal is carrying in the first place is because they're not entirely confident of a successful outcome when attempting their robbery when "the odds are even" so to speak. Most criminals typically want to execute their "mission" when they know they're at a clear position of advantage.

Are there a few criminals who are reckless enough to attempt something on an armed victim?...sure, there will always be some people who are at a 10 on the crazy-meter (thus the kind that still try to attack cops who are openly carrying), however, the vast majority are more opportunistic than they are suicidal/reckless...and thus an armed target is always going to be less desirable than an unarmed one.

IOW, owning a firearm doesn't raise your IQ.
 
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Ana the Ist

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You always here of some fluke incidents of super-brazen criminals like this...very risky on the part of the mugger...especially if he was bluffing and the gun owner decided to call his bluff.

I remember one such incident that was reported in one of those "dumbest criminals" articles where a guy tried to rob a gun store...

However, I do find the comments in this thread a bit puzzling...

If we evaluated all of the armed robberies that take place, the overwhelming majority of them are still directly against targets who the perpetrator knows to be unarmed.

Yet, a rare fluke instance where the robber knows the victim to be armed occurs, and folks are taking the "told ya so" attitude. Not really grounded in reality if you ask me.

The DOJ actually did a grant-funded study of felonious armed robbers in various states to determine the efficacy of armed civilian as it pertain to deterring the actions of a would-be robber. The prisoners they studied were the career-criminal types who had made a living off of robbing.

The prisoners, studied under a grant from the National Institute of Justice of the U.S. Justice Department, were incarcerated in Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nevada and Oklahoma.

Percentage who avoided a target due to knowing that the target was armed: 74%

Percentage who attempted to find out ahead of time if their potential target might be armed: 81%

The report also went on to say:
In states with widespread gun ownership and tough punishment for gun misuse, criminals surveyed were often unarmed: 54% in Oklahoma, 62% in Georgia, 40% in Maryland, 43% in Missouri, and 35% in Florida. In Massachusetts, however, only 29% of the felon-respondents were unarmed. In that state, it is difficult lawfully to acquire a firearm, and the illegal carrying of a firearm, rather than the criminal misuse of a gun, is subject to the mandatory penalty. The survey data indicate that the criminals' fear of an armed victim relates directly to the severity of the gun laws in the state surveyed. Where gun laws are less restrictive, such as Georgia and Maryland, criminals think twice before running the risk of facing an armed victim; they are much less concerned in Massachusetts.

Fifty-six percent of the felons surveyed agreed that "A criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun;" 74% agreed that "One reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot."

A 57% majority agreed that "Most criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."



...and really, all of this makes perfect sense when you look at it from the criminal's perspective. Obviously, the whole reason a criminal is carrying in the first place is because they're not entirely confident of a successful outcome when attempting their robbery when "the odds are even" so to speak. Most criminals typically want to execute their "mission" when they know they're at a clear position of advantage.

Are there a few criminals who are reckless enough to attempt something on an armed victim?...sure, there will always be some people who are at a 10 on the crazy-meter (thus the kind that still try to attack cops who are openly carrying), however, the vast majority are more opportunistic than they are suicidal/reckless...and thus an armed target is always going to be less desirable than an unarmed one.

Would you mind linking that study?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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IOW, owning a firearm doesn't raise your IQ.

...much like being an armed robber doesn't lower it.

If you're an armed robber with half a brain, you're always going to prefer that your victim be unarmed.

If you were a robber (who didn't have a death wish), which mansion are you going to try to hit, the Piers Morgan residence?...or the Ted Nugent residence?

...and extreme example I know, but it illustrates my point ;)

A person being bold enough to rob a open-carrier once doesn't negate the vast majority of criminals who would intentionally avoid the open carriers and pick another target.
 
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Radicalmonk

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A gun is as evil or bad or dangerous as a kitchen knife, sharpened pencil, plugged in fan or radio by a tub of water, drop of peanut oil, and on and on. It is never the object which is dangerous. It is the human being who carelessly or dangerously handles the object. The person, the person, the person.... Nice joke, rather surreal, though, as already said. It is a very long established fact among humanity that visible, significant force is a significant deterrent against agression.
 
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rambot

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If you were a robber (who didn't have a death wish), which mansion are you going to try to hit, the Piers Morgan residence?...or the Ted Nugent residence?

...and extreme example I know, but it illustrates my point ;)
.
Ugg...Pies Morgan for sure. Ted Nugent's house would be filled with too much gawdy junk.
 
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rambot

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A gun is as evil or bad or dangerous as a kitchen knife, sharpened pencil, plugged in fan or radio by a tub of water, drop of peanut oil, and on and on. It is never the object which is dangerous
Really? So if I gave you a live gernade without a pin in it and ran away, you'd still agree that the object isn't dangerous? I didn't carelessly or dangerously pull out the pin...I did it very carefully and safely. I just left you with it.
 
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cow451

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It is a very long established fact among humanity that visible, significant force is a significant deterrent against agression.

Didn't work too well here. One thing Open Carry does, as it did here, is mark the carrier. IOW, an armed robber will shoot the open carry guy first. An unarmed robber is easily deterred by any sign of resistance.
 
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Vylo

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A gun is as evil or bad or dangerous as a kitchen knife, sharpened pencil, plugged in fan or radio by a tub of water, drop of peanut oil, and on and on. It is never the object which is dangerous. It is the human being who carelessly or dangerously handles the object. The person, the person, the person.... Nice joke, rather surreal, though, as already said. It is a very long established fact among humanity that visible, significant force is a significant deterrent against agression.

Uh no.

A gun is no more evil or bad than those items, but it is certainly much more dangerous.

Unless you can show where improperly or aggressively used plugged in fans were used murder 31,000 people in one year.

Part of dealing with gun violence and defending the right to defend yourself with them under the second amendment is acknowledging what guns are and the results of having them around, good, bad, and indifferent.

Guns are not toys, they are not tools. They are weapons. They are designed with the express purpose of killing and/or greatly harming living beings, humans included. This isn't always a bad thing, as you can use it against hostile and/or evil living things to save innocent ones. But you can't ignore what they are designed for or you will lack the ability to tackle the issues that come about from their prevalence in your society.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Uh no.

A gun is no more evil or bad than those items, but it is certainly much more dangerous.

And as such, must be handled much more responsibly -- as our friend in the OP learned the hard way.
 
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stamperben

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I forgot you are a Texan.:bow:
Born and raised in the birthplace of the Panthers - Oakland CA. :cool:

[edit to add] I take that back. Actually the Panthers were born in Mississippi and the name brought back to Oakland by a friend of my family named Mark Comfort. Mark was the only non-Panther on the steps of the Calif capital building that day. That's Mark in sunglasses wearing the beret. They borrowed about 7 of his rifles that day.

17_panthers_04.jpg
 
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