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One Simple Question

5thKingdom

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Is it true that God NEVER MEANT for some men to "be converted" or "be forgiven"?


Mar 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know
the mystery of the kingdom of God:but unto them that are without,
all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see,
and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand;
LEST AT ANY TIME they should be CONVERTED, and their sins
should be FORGIVEN them.


.
 
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Charlie24

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Is it true that God NEVER MEANT for some men to "be converted" or "be forgiven"?


Mar 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know
the mystery of the kingdom of God:but unto them that are without,
all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see,
and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand;
LEST AT ANY TIME they should be CONVERTED, and their sins
should be FORGIVEN them.


.
2Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

The Lord was explaining the purpose of parables in Mark 4:11-12.

They are meant to reject the curious and draw the serious.
 
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5thKingdom

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2Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

The Lord was explaining the purpose of parables in Mark 4:11-12.

They are meant to reject the curious and draw the serious.


First, of course, you neglected to explain the CONTEXT of "us"
in 2Pet 3:9... does it include practicing Moslems and Buddhists
or Hindus or Atheists? Or is there a more LIMITED CONTEXT?

Second... If the Gospel is "meant to reject" some...
are you agreeing with Jesus that some are NEVER MEANT
to be saved? (lest ye be converted and forgiven)

Third... were 99.9% of OT Gentiles NEVER MEANT to be saved?

Jim
 
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jacks

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Is it true that God NEVER MEANT for some men to "be converted" or "be forgiven"?


Mar 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know
the mystery of the kingdom of God:but unto them that are without,
all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see,
and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand;
LEST AT ANY TIME they should be CONVERTED, and their sins
should be FORGIVEN them.

.

I've also always been curious about this passage. For the reasons you stated, but also because parables make things easier to understand not harder. They illustrate difficult spiritual concepts into everyday terms, that are easier to relate to. It is the parables that are easier to remember and apply, even if we don't understand them fully.
 
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Tone

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Is it true that God NEVER MEANT for some men to "be converted" or "be forgiven"?


Mar 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know
the mystery of the kingdom of God:but unto them that are without,
all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see,
and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand;
LEST AT ANY TIME they should be CONVERTED, and their sins
should be FORGIVEN them.


.

Yeah, the seed of the serpent.
 
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5thKingdom

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Yeah, the seed of the serpent.


And there are TONS of the "seek of the serpent"

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:



.
 
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Tone

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And there are TONS of the "seek of the serpent"

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:



.

Yeah, all flesh.

*Including ours...
 
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5thKingdom

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I've also always been curious about this passage. For the reasons you stated, but also because parables make things easier to understand not harder. They illustrate difficult spiritual concepts into everyday terms, that are easier to relate to. It is the parables that are easier to remember and apply, even if we don't understand them fully.



If we read the Bible carefully and REALLY submit to what it says
(understanding the context of verses) then it is hard to IGNORE
what verses like Mark 4:11-12 teach. And there are TONS of
verses teaching that some men were never meant to be saved.

Jim
.
 
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plain jayne

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Is it true that God NEVER MEANT for some men to "be converted" or "be forgiven"

Look at whom Jesus is quoting and what was meant at THAT time - then compare it to what Jesus was saying.

Jesus quoted Isaiah from Isaiah 6:9-10. This was Isaiah's commissioning by God and Isaiah's first assignment.

  • Isaiah saw a vision of the LORD in the Temple and his train filled the Temple.
  • Isaiah knew he was a man of "unclean" lips and the angel came and cleansed him.
  • God said, "Who will go for us?" and Isaiah said, "Here am I - send me."
  • God said that this was Isaiah's first assignment: To tell the people that they will look and listen, but not understand. God told Isaiah to make their minds dull, their ears deaf, and their eyes blind so they wouldn't turn and be healed.
  • Isaiah asked, "For how long?" God said, "Until everything was in ruin and they [the people of Judah] were carried away."
OK, why did God not want the people Judah to understand and repent and be healed? He did want this! But he knew the stubborn and rebellious hearts of his people and knew that they would not change for His sake as they were entrenched with idolatry. It was going to take them falling to rock bottom in a land of captivity in Babylon before they looked "up" and it took Daniel to do that.

The same with Jesus. So many of the Hebrew people were hardened by legalism and more that they would not listen to him. So he spoke to them in parables. Parables - not being simple demonstrations of what he was teaching, but more like a lesson that had to be unwound, untwisted, and opened - like a Rubik's cube or Chinese finger puzzle. It took work. Work that the people didn't want to do, didn't even know to do, and the disciples had no clue of. [At least they WANTED to know.]

In the Old Testament, the people of Judah eventually were brought back to Jerusalem after 70 years, rebuilt the Temple, and dedicated themselves to God.

After the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, many of those rebellious people WERE saved. Acts 15 speaks briefly of some of the Pharisees being save [yet still hanging on to tradition.] In Acts 2, 3,000 people were saved in ONE day. Perhaps many were at that very place where Jesus preached his sermon with this parable.

You'd better believe that after the death and Resurrection of Christ, people remembered his words WITH understanding and it changed their lives.
 
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Charlie24

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First, of course, you neglected to explain the CONTEXT of "us"
in 2Pet 3:9... does it include practicing Moslems and Buddhists
or Hindus or Atheists? Or is there a more LIMITED CONTEXT?

Second... If the Gospel is "meant to reject" some...
are you agreeing with Jesus that some are NEVER MEANT
to be saved? (lest ye be converted and forgiven)

Third... were 99.9% of OT Gentiles NEVER MEANT to be saved?

Jim

Wow! Seems like you already have it figured out. I can see you don't need me!
 
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5thKingdom

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OK, why did God not want the people Judah to understand and repent and be healed? He did want this! But he knew the stubborn and rebellious hearts of his people and knew that they would not change for His sake as they were entrenched with idolatry. It was going to take them falling to rock bottom in a land of captivity in Babylon before they looked "up" and it took Daniel to do that.


When we read these things we need to understand the CONTEXT
from both the Corporate perspective and the Individual perspective.
We can say that Israel or Judah were God's chosen people and yet
we know that MANY (or most) individuals were not chosen.


Read Matt 22:2 for the fall of the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven"
and it's replacement with the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"
which Jesus specifically NAMED in Mat 13, in 8 verses.


Read Matt 21:43 to see how the "Kingdom of God"
was TAKEN from the Jews and GIVEN to the Christians.


Read Matt 25:1-13 to see how the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"
was replaced with the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
when the last "wheat and tares" (the ten virgins) "went forth"
following the Antichrist AFTER the "testimony" of the church
(two candlesticks and two olive trees represent the NT church)
was "finished" [Rev 11:7] and AFTER all of the elect "sheep"
were "saved/sealed" [Rev 7:1-3] and AFTER the Holy Spirit was
"taken out of the way" [2Thess 2:6-9] so that Satan could then
be "loosened" for His "Little Season" [Rev 20:3]... since Satan
could not be "loosened" until the "restraining" Holy Spirit was
first "taken out of the way".


It is the same with the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" (the church)
[Mat 13] consists of BOTH saved "wheat/sheep" sown by God and
destined to eternal life and unsaved "tares/goats" sown by Satan
and destined to the SAME FIRE prepared for Satan and his demons.
The unsaved "tares" are PART of the corporate church... but are
unsaved INDIVIDUALS, and NOT PART of the Eternal church.
The Eternal "church" only includes the saved "wheat/sheep".
And unsaved "tares" cannot simply "decide" to become "wheat"..
which is what a synergistic (false) gospel teaches.


So we must always understand the DIFFERENCE between the
Corporate church and the Eternal church... whether we are talking
about Israel or Christians. We KNOW there are MANY (most) in both
that are destined to hell and there are FEW (chosen) who are destined for eternal life.


The same with Jesus. So many of the Hebrew people were hardened by legalism and more that they would not listen to him. So he spoke to them in parables. Parables - not being simple demonstrations of what he was teaching, but more like a lesson that had to be unwound, untwisted, and opened - like a Rubik's cube or Chinese finger puzzle. It took work. Work that the people didn't want to do, didn't even know to do, and the disciples had no clue of. [At least they WANTED to know.]


Let's look at it another way. ALL MEN the Father gave to Jesus
would come to Jesus, they were "His Sheep" and destined for
eternal life. NO MAN who was NOT "His Sheep" would ever be
saved. And NONE of "His sheep" would ever be lost.


So we can say the people were "hardened"... but God PROMISES
that ALL the elect (all of "His sheep") would be "drawn" and saved.
It is not a matter of a personal choice but of a Sovereign God.
Can we say the Corporate Church will be saved... no, no more
than we could say corporate Israel would all be saved.


So... we must discern the CONTEXT of passages to determine
whether they are talking about the corporate "body" (either
Israel or Christians) or the INDIVIDUALS who are the Eternal body.


In the Old Testament, the people of Judah eventually were brought back to Jerusalem after 70 years, rebuilt the Temple, and dedicated themselves to God.


Yes... which was a "shadow" of the "wise virgins" of the
Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" being brought back
to God while the "foolish virgins" of the Great Tribulation
(aka Revelation Beast) are NOT included in the Final Harvest.
Likewise, while the Temple was rebuilt only a "remnant" was
actually saved.


After the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, many of those rebellious people WERE saved. Acts 15 speaks briefly of some of the Pharisees being save [yet still hanging on to tradition.] In Acts 2, 3,000 people were saved in ONE day. Perhaps many were at that very place where Jesus preached his sermon with this parable.


While the PURPOSE of the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" was
to seek and save all the lost sheep (both Jew and Gentile) and
ALL the lost sheep are saved - NONE are lost. Those who believe
do so BECAUSE God chose them... not the other way around.


You'd better believe that after the death and Resurrection of Christ, people remembered his words WITH understanding and it changed their lives.


I am more comfortable saying after Pentecost, but I agree with
you in principle. As long as we remember it is the HOLY SPIRIT
that causes that "belief" and not a human "decision". In other
words... throughout the history of Man, regeneration always
precedes any repentance (including trust/faith/believe)...
otherwise you just have another false "works" gospel.


Remember, in Mark and Matthew and Isaiah the POINT is that
the people COULD not "see" or "hear" or "understand" because
they were NEVER MEANT to "be converted" or "be forgiven"...
there is no implication these people would LATER be converted
(on an individual basis - not a corporate basis). Otherwise they
would be like the Apostles "to you it is GIVEN to understand".
Biblical Truth (trust/faith/believe/understanding) is a GIFT of God
and not a "work" (decision or choice) of man.


Jim
 
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5thKingdom

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Wow! Seems like you already have it figured out. I can see you don't need me!

I have nothing "figured out".
These are basic Bible doctrines.
Sorry if they "offend" you in some way.

In any case, there is a specific CONTEXT to the word "us"
and we cannot HOPE to ever understand the MEANING of the passage
when we have not be able to discern the context.

Jim
.
 
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5thKingdom

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Is it true that God NEVER MEANT for some men to "be converted" or "be forgiven"?


Mar 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know
the mystery of the kingdom of God:but unto them that are without,
all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see,
and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand;
LEST AT ANY TIME they should be CONVERTED, and their sins
should be FORGIVEN them.


.



Wow... none of the "Bible experts" on this site can use the Bible
to disprove some men were NEVER MEANT to be "His Sheep".
That speaks volumes.


.
 
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Tone

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1 Peter 1:24
"For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: but the word of the Lord endures forever." And this is the word that was preached to you."

Isaiah 55:11
"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."


Where His Word does not go, there can be no sheep.

Mark 16:15
"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

I believe that He means every man and woman to hear the Word, that they may be saved.
 
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5thKingdom

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Where His Word does not go, there can be no sheep.

So you believe some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved
because they lived and died without hearing the Gospel?

And what about all the Gentiles who were not saved
during the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven"... do you also
believe they were NEVER MEANT to be saved?


I believe that He means every man and woman to hear the Word, that they may be saved.


When you say "they may be saved"...
what do you do with those who HEARD the Gospel
and were NOT SAVED because (a) they were NOT HIS SHEEP
and (b) they were NEVER MEANT to be forgiven:


(a)
Joh 10:26
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep,
as I said unto you.


(b)
Mar 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you [the Apostles] it is given
to know the mystery of the Kingdom of God
: but unto
them that are without [the Kingdom of God], all these things
are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not
perceive
; and hearing they may hear, and not understand;
lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins
should be forgiven them
.


Either Christ is clearly revealing the truth that some men were
NEVER MEANT to believe or be forgiven... or Jesus is telling a LIE.
If all men and every man can simply "decide" to be elect then
Jesus is a LIAR. You don't believe Jesus was a LIAR do you?
(because MANY "Christian" do... so they ignore these verses)


.
 
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Tone

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So you believe some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved
because they lived and died without hearing the Gospel?

And what about all the Gentiles who were not saved
during the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven"... do you also
believe they were NEVER MEANT to be saved?





When you say "they may be saved"...
what do you do with those who HEARD the Gospel
and were NOT SAVED because (a) they were NOT HIS SHEEP
and (b) they were NEVER MEANT to be forgiven:


(a)
Joh 10:26
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep,
as I said unto you.


(b)
Mar 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you [the Apostles] it is given
to know the mystery of the Kingdom of God
: but unto
them that are without [the Kingdom of God], all these things
are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see, and not
perceive
; and hearing they may hear, and not understand;
lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins
should be forgiven them
.


Either Christ is clearly revealing the truth that some men were
NEVER MEANT to believe or be forgiven... or Jesus is telling a LIE.
If all men and every man can simply "decide" to be elect then
Jesus is a LIAR. You don't believe Jesus was a LIAR do you?
(because MANY "Christian" do... so they ignore these verses)


.

Yeah, the heart that is not good soil is not meant to produce.

I think what you are getting at is that the Creator is responsible for bad soil.

I don't believe that.
 
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5thKingdom

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Yeah, the heart that is not good soil is not meant to produce.

I think what you are getting at is that the Creator is responsible for bad soil.

I don't believe that.


No, I am not saying the Creator is responsible for bad soil...
I am only repeating what JESUS said:

Jesus said the church consists of both saved "wheat/sheep"
sown by God and destined to eternal life and unsaved "tares/goats"
sown by Satan and destined to eternal hell.

Jesus taught that some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved...
both in the OT Kingdom and the NT Kingdom. This should not
be a surprise to anyone.


.
 
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5thKingdom

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Is it true that God NEVER MEANT for some men to "be converted" or "be forgiven"?

Mar 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know
the mystery of the kingdom of God:but unto them that are without,
all these things are done in parables: 12 That seeing they may see,
and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand;
LEST AT ANY TIME they should be CONVERTED, and their sins
should be FORGIVEN them.


All the "Bible scholars" on this forum and NONE want to admit
that some men were NEVER MEANT to be saved?


Why would that be?
Because they could not evangelize a "God loves you" gospel,
not knowing if that man was NEVER MEANT to be saved?


Is it really better to preach a "free offer" (of synergism) than
to preach the FINISHED WORK of Christ and the possibility that
it MIGHT cover the sins of the hearer?


2Ti_4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;


Jim
 
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Dan Perez

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I've also always been curious about this passage. For the reasons you stated, but also because parables make things easier to understand not harder. They illustrate difficult spiritual concepts into everyday terms, that are easier to relate to. It is the parables that are easier to remember and apply, even if we don't understand them fully.

Hi and you will see the same comments in Isa 6:9 and verse 10 !!

And that the vision in verses 2-3 confirm as the 2 WINGS covered his face , showing that Israel was blinded to Isaiah's message and the 2 WINGS that covered was the SPEED that Isaiah covered the land of the Jews and the 2 WINGS that covered his FEET , mean that Isaiah 's SPEED that Isaiah covered Israel with CHRIST message and we see that Israel's HEART was nor HEALED nor CONVEERTED !!

This then means that Israel was to be set aside and written in 2 Cor 3:10-18 !!

dan p
 
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5thKingdom

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This then means that Israel was to be set aside and written in 2 Cor 3:10-18 !! Dan


Dan,


You are, of course, absolutely correct that the "Kingdom of God"
was TAKEN from the Jewish "generation" and it was GIVEN to
the Christian "generation", as Jesus clearly taught during
His Ministry:


Mat 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The Kingdom of God
shall be TAKEN FROM YOU, [the Jewish "generation"]
AND GIVEN to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
[The Christian "generation"]


Mat 21:45
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables,
they perceived that he spake of them.


It is exceedingly interesting that just as the Jews were
NEVER MEANT to understand the END of their "Kingdom",
so also, the Christians were NEVER MEANT to understand
the END of the "church age". Even though Scriptures revealed
there would come a time when all the "lost sheep" were saved,
when all the Saints were "sealed" [Rev 7:1-3] and a time when
the "testimony" of the church would be "finished" [Rev 11:7]...
the "two candlesticks" and "two olive trees" represent the church.


There would come a time when the Holy Spirit would be
"taken out of the way" [2Thess 2:6-9] so that Satan could
be "loosened" from the Bottomless Pit [Rev 9:1-2] in order to
RULE during his "little season" [Rev 20:3 and 11:7], which is also
shown in Scripture as the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
[Mat 25:1-13] and as the 7-Headed Revelation Beast, who is led
by the Antichrist ["little horn" and/or "false prophet"] and gets
his power and strength and authority from Satan, the dragon.
[Rev 13:2]


Rev 13:2
And the [Revelation] Beast which I saw was like unto a leopard,
[representing the Christian Kingdom] and his feet were as the feet
of a bear, [representing the Jewish Kingdom] and his mouth as the
mouth of a lion [representing the Pre-Flood Kingdom]: and the
dragon [Satan] gave him [the Revelation Beast] his power,
and his seat, and great authority.


Of course we see the same thing taught in the OT prophecy,
showing EACH "Kingdom of Heaven" was a separate and
distinct "generation" of Saints. With EACH Kingdom having
it's own unique Gospel... as God "revealed" His Truth in a progressive manner (to the saints) throughout history.



Dan 7:3-7
And four great Beasts [Kingdoms] came up from the sea,
diverse [different] one from another. The first was like a LION,
[Pre-Flood Kingdom of Rev 13:2] and had eagle's wings: I beheld
till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth,
and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given
to it.[showing the pre-fall and post-fall nature of the first Kingdom]
And behold another Beast, a second, like to a BEAR, [the Jewish
Kingdom of Rev 13:2]
and it raised up itself on one side, and it had
three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said
thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. After this I beheld, and lo
another, [third Beast/Kingdom] like a LEOPARD, [the Christian
Kingdom of Rev 13:2]
which had upon the back of it four wings of
a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
[as the saints "lived and RULED with Christ" during the church age]
After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a Fourth Beast,
dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly... [the Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" and/or the Revelation "Beast" of Rev 13:2]



However, just as Jews Saints were NEVER MEANT to understand
the END of their "Kingdom", so also, the Christian Saints were
NEVER MEANT to understand the END of their "Kingdom".


Act 1:7
And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or
the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.


So, Daniel confessed that HE DID NOT UNDERSTAND the
meaning of his own prophecies... but the Bible PROMISED the
Truth would remain "closed-up" and "sealed" until they will be
revealed to the Last Saints at the "time-of-the-end". However,
while, the Bible PROMISED the Last Saints "shall understand"
these Biblical mysteries, it also promised NONE of the unsaved
would be able to understand or accept these Biblical mysteries
[Dan 12:8-10]


Dan 12:8-10
And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord,
what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way,
Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed [from all Saints]
till the time of the end. Many [Saints] shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.


In fact, we see that JESUS also PROMISED the Last Saints
"shall see ALL THESE THINGS" [all Great Tribulation prophecies]
including the fulfillment of Daniel's "Abomination of Desolation"
and even the NAME of the Antirchrist... just before His Return.
[Mat 24:15 and 24:33-34]


Mat 24:33-34
So likewise ye, [Last Saints] when ye shall see all these things,
know that it
[His Return] is near, even at the doors. Verily I say
unto you, This [last] generation [of Saints] shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled.


Now (before any heads explode) we all know (or should know)
there is a generation of LAST SAINTS that "see" (experience) the
fulfillment of ALL Great Tribulation (Revelation Beast) prophecies
BEFORE they are suddenly "changed" into their incorruptible
spiritual bodies in a "twinkling of an eye" (at the Resurrection).


The POINT of all this is simply to show that... just as the Jews
were NEVER MEANT to understand the END of their "Kingdom",
so also, almost 2000 yrs of Christian saints were NEVER MEANT
to understand the END of the church age - and the fulfillment of
ALL "these things" (Great Tribulation prophecies or "signs").


However, the Bible is exceedingly clear [in Dan 12 and Mat 24]
that the Last Saints "shall understand" and we "shall see"...
the fulfillment of all Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast "signs",
even knowing the NAME of the Antichirst.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW: understanding what the Bible PROMISED in Daniel 12:8-10
we can know absolutely that all "interpretations" about fulfillment
of Daniel's four Kingdoms/Beasts MUST BE INCORRECT since the
Bible PROMISES the Truth remains "closed-up" and "sealed"
to all the Saints... until the Last Saints at the "time of the end"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


Just as the Jewish Saints were NEVER MEANT to understand
the END of their "Kingdom"... until the LAST JEWISH SAINTS were
"harvested" into the Christian "Kingdom" [John 4:35]


John 4:35
Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields;
for they are white already to harvest.


So also, the Christian Saints were NEVER MEANT to understand
the END of their "Kingdom"... until the LAST Christian Saints were
"sealed" [Rev 7:1-3] and the "testimony" of the church age was
"finished" [Rev 11:7] and the Holy Spirit was "taken out of the way"
[2Thess 2:6-9] so Satan could be "loosened" from the Bottomless
Pit [Rev 9:1-2] to RULE in the Great Tribulation/Revelation Beast
and the LAST SAINTS, those living during the Great Tribulation and
those who are "changed" in the "twinkling of an eye", will be the
Saints that "shall see" and "shall understand" these Biblical Truths
that were "closed-up" and "sealed" until the "time-of-the-end",
also called the "Season and Time" [Dan 7:11-12]


BTW: This should demonstrate to any rational person that the
common ERROR of thinking the early Saints "understood" the
Scriptures better than the Last Saints... is just foolishness and
the "fruit" of not understanding Scriptures about the Last Saints.


Just as the Christian Saints understood the Gospel MUCH BETTER
than the Jewish Saints... so also the Last Saints understand the
Gospel (and all prophecy) MUCH BETTER than those living during
the church age (before the Last Saints are "sealed" and Holy Spirit
is "taken out of the way").


Jim
 
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