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Peter was BEHAVING inconstently, not teaching inconsistently. Learn the ins and outs of the doctrine before you provide commentary, it will save you grief when your strawman is destroyed.with the picture we're given of the apostles themselves.
Pope Peter was in error & had to be corrected by latecomer Paul.
WRONG. The Orthodox don't deny it, they simply haven't canonized it as a doctrine.
In your opinion....
Forgive me.
Have you ever been Catholic?It is fact that we do deny it. That is not opinion.
Thank you for not answering to what the Orthodox believe and attest to, I will do likewise when questions of beliefs of The Church of Rome.
Forgive me...
Have you ever been Catholic?
Since Orthodoxy doesn't share a similar view regarding original sin as the Roman Church does, setting this viewpoint in concrete terms is difficult at best. Since I have been both Orthodox and Catholic, I can speak with perspective on both viewpoints, which makes my line of questioning and thinking germain to the topic. Are you going to discuss, or continue to be irascible?Are you writing a book?
This line of questioning is not relevant to the O.P.
Please refrain from speaking for Orthodox Christians on our beliefs.
Forgive me...
Since Orthodoxy doesn't share a similar view regarding original sin as the Roman Church does, setting this viewpoint in concrete terms is difficult at best. Since I have been both Orthodox and Catholic, I can speak with perspective on both viewpoints, which makes my line of questioning and thinking germain to the topic. Are you going to discuss, or continue to be irascible?
Since the DOCTRINE of the Immaculate Conception can only be seen as a dogma from the middle of the 19th century, we have to dig way back to see what the ECF's believed about Mary.
Tell me, what is the Orthodox theological opinion on Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant?
WRONG. The Orthodox don't deny it, they simply haven't canonized it as a doctrine.
Super. I will refrain from speaking for the Orthodox church. So, can you tell the rest of the participants in this thread what the Orthodox position on Mary as Ark of the New Covenant is?Your statement was...
We do deny it. You made an errornous statement concerning the Orthodox. I ask you to refrain from speaking for the Orthodox Christians as obviously you have made a decision to leave the Orthodox Church in favor of The Church of Rome for reasons of your own.
Therefore, as we see it, you are no longer qualified to speak as to what the Orthodox beliefs are... In our humble opinion... If you ever held correct Orthodox beliefs you would not have made the decision you made....
You should not use your misunderstandings of the Orthodox faith as a basis for teaching others what Orthodox believe.
I do not speak for the beliefs of The Church of Rome, I ask you to do likewise.
I will not speak further on this.
Forgive me...
Super. I will refrain from speaking for the Orthodox church. So, can you tell the rest of the participants in this thread what the Orthodox position on Mary as Ark of the New Covenant is?
Also, what is the Orthodox understanding of kecharitomene as it applies to Mary?
Yes, it does teach that she died and was taken up in body to heaven so that she would remain uncorrupted.Lets cut to the chase.
Was the wood that the original ARK was made from Holy before it was fashioned into the ARK? Or was it consecrated and became Holy afterward?
Does your Church teach that Mary died? Check carefully.
Forgive me...
You didn't answer on the whole kecharitomene part......Lets cut to the chase.
Was the wood that the original ARK was made from Holy before it was fashioned into the ARK? Or was it consecrated and became Holy afterward?
Does your Church teach that Mary died? Check carefully.
Forgive me...
Peter was BEHAVING inconstently, not teaching inconsistently. Learn the ins and outs of the doctrine before you provide commentary, it will save you grief when your strawman is destroyed.
Yes, it does teach that she died and was taken up in body to heaven so that she would remain uncorrupted.
You didn't answer on the whole kecharitomene part......
Not exactly. The Holy Spirit guarantees that the church, under the temporal leadership of the Pope, cannot formulate errant doctrine. By your standard, non of the Apostles were capable of sinning. Yet both Paul and John speak often of retaining a sin nature.LOL! So Peter's teaching was do as I say, not as I do?
Learn the ins & outs of common sense, & you won't look like like a fool. You're saying Peter didn't practice what he preached. You make the first Pope out to be a hypocrite.
So did Paul.
I have yet to see any real proof of this guarantee....Not exactly. The Holy Spirit guarantees that the church, under the temporal leadership of the Pope, cannot formulate errant doctrine. By your standard, non of the Apostles were capable of sinning. Yet both Paul and John speak often of retaining a sin nature.
When Gabriel addressed Mary with "Kacharitomene Mariam" He used the present participle in the perfect tense to describe Mary's state of grace. It wasn't Gabriel's announcement that filled Mary with grace, He was acknowledging a condition that already existed. Gabriel was commenting that Mary was already full of grace, and always had been. In effect he said, "Mary, you are full of grace." Not, "Mary, you are NOW full of grace", or "Mary, you will be full of grace", but a proclaimation that she was full of grace in a continual and unending sense. So, I ask you, when DID Mary become "full of grace". And if she was full of grace, how could she be considered corruptable and sinful?Were Joachim and Anna (Mary's parents) immaculately conceived as well? Where does this line of reasoning end?
Forgive me...
Not exactly. The Holy Spirit guarantees that the church, under the temporal leadership of the Pope, cannot formulate errant doctrine. By your standard, non of the Apostles were capable of sinning. Yet both Paul and John speak often of retaining a sin nature.
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