Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
fair enough. The more you look into it though, the more muddled the picture gets, frankly.
I am hoping that if I continue looking, real truth might be under all the convolution.Obviously we will have to agree to disagree, I spent quite some time examining the question and was able to come to an answer, for me the experience was that the more I looked into the matter the clearer the picture became until I reached a point that I felt the answer to who was correct was obvious.
even if I did, I could not partake because of the other things I simply do not believe, so It's a moot point."If" The Holy Eucharist is what The Orthodox Church says it is, (we don't say others don't have it, just that we believe we do...) would you not wish to be a part of that community?
This is based on the premise that you believe that The Orthodox Church is correct about The Holy Eucharist.
Forgive me...
1) the promise about the gates of hell do not state perfection. This is a claim of interpretation, the text does not state as such.
2) being able to trace "apostolic succession" back to the first century imparts nothing towards the assertion that there is no error. Any single one of the fallible men over the years could insert error. Having a long line of succession does nothing to preserve truth.
many teachings of the EO are extra biblical, and I have no assurance that they are not false, given the above 2 points. They all hinge on a promise that I do not believe was ever given.
4) I have seen God work very powerfully in the lives of people who have nothing to do with EO or RCC. If either were the "only" church, I would think I would see much less of this outside of the "one true church." I would also think that if so many people were seeking God earnestly, and depending on the Holy Spirit, and there WAS a "one true church" that they would be drawn to it indelibly. I believe God would be monsterous if he had those calling on his name earnestly, and not guiding them to his "one true church" if it existed.
5) The main thrust of the bible is salvation by grace, and that what God considers pure and perfect have nothing to do with ritual and liturgy. (personal observation, subjective.)
Congratulations, you've successfully proven your case, the one nagging problem is that we're not a "have it all right" church. The Orthodox Church claims, and can demonstrate the claim, that we are an unbroken tradition with the fullest deposit of truth. Needless to say, every Protestant church believes that they are the fullest deposit of (biblical) truth.Kind of had an epiphany (although, it wasn't exactly something hidden, just something that I never thought of before.)
Either the Eastern Orthodox Church, or the Roman Catholic Church is Proveably in error. Which it is, if either of them TRULY have everything right (which I don't believe) I couldn't tell you, but one is definitely in doctrinal error.
It all hinges on one doctine too.
The Dogma of the immaculate conception. (I didn't post this in Mariology, as it isn't really about Mary.)
RCC espouses as Dogma the IC.
Orthodox denies IC.
They cannot both be right, therefore, one of the two "have it all right" churches is in definite doctrinal error over this single doctrine.
One down, one to go.
Congratulations, you've successfully proven your case, the one nagging problem is that we're not a "have it all right" church. The Orthodox Church claims, and can demonstrate the claim, that we are an unbroken tradition with the fullest deposit of truth. Needless to say, every Protestant church believes that they are the fullest deposit of (biblical) truth.
That being said, Mary either was Immaculately conceived, or not. Also, once saved always saved- or not. Premillenium, or not. You might say premillenialism isn't dogmatic- to which I'd point to the statement of faith of the Evangelical Free Church. Total Depravity, or not. etc.
From where we stand, all of these dogmatic declarations on matters not made clear in scripture are foolish
I fail to see the distinction between the RCC claim of perfect doctrine, and what I have hilighted above.Congratulations, you've successfully proven your case, the one nagging problem is that we're not a "have it all right" church. The Orthodox Church claims, and can demonstrate the claim, that we are an unbroken tradition with the fullest deposit of truth. Needless to say, every Protestant church believes that they are the fullest deposit of (biblical) truth.
That being said, Mary either was Immaculately conceived, or not. Also, once saved always saved- or not. Premillenium, or not. You might say premillenialism isn't dogmatic- to which I'd point to the statement of faith of the Evangelical Free Church. Total Depravity, or not. etc.
From where we stand, all of these dogmatic declarations on matters not made clear in scripture are foolish
Exactly.There is a distiction between having "everything correct" and being the most correct that can be had.
Forgive me...
then does the Orthodox church state that it "might" be in error on any teaching?There is a distiction between having "everything correct" and being the most correct that can be had.
Forgive me...
then does the Orthodox church state that it "might" be in error on any teaching?
no, what I meant was, does the Orthodox Church acknowledge the POTENTIAL for error within it's teachings. Not that it DOES.That's kind of a strange question.
If we knew that we were in error on something we would correct it. Why would we continue something that we know is wrong?
We accept the fact that we are fallen, and do our best to follow Christ's instructions to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect.
See what I mean?
Forgive me...
no, what I meant was, does the Orthodox Church acknowledge the POTENTIAL for error within it's teachings. Not that it DOES.
That sounds remarkably like the claim of the RCC. At least, I can't discern between the two, it appears that both Orthodox and RCC claim that they have no error in teachings.I would say that in Doctrines of Faith and belief, that we don't believe we our in error, nor can be. We have protected and taught the teachings of the Church since the beginning.
no, what I meant was, does the Orthodox Church acknowledge the POTENTIAL for error within it's teachings. Not that it DOES.
WRONG. The Orthodox don't deny it, they simply haven't canonized it as a doctrine.Kind of had an epiphany (although, it wasn't exactly something hidden, just something that I never thought of before.)
Either the Eastern Orthodox Church, or the Roman Catholic Church is Proveably in error. Which it is, if either of them TRULY have everything right (which I don't believe) I couldn't tell you, but one is definitely in doctrinal error.
It all hinges on one doctine too.
The Dogma of the immaculate conception. (I didn't post this in Mariology, as it isn't really about Mary.)
RCC espouses as Dogma the IC.
Orthodox denies IC.
They cannot both be right, therefore, one of the two "have it all right" churches is in definite doctrinal error over this single doctrine.
One down, one to go.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?