once saved, always saved?

snoochface · Sep 7, 2006

I'm finding it interesting that no one who does not believe in once-saved-always-saved feels like they can answer my questions. Is it that ambiguous a doctrine?

Elijah2 · Sep 7, 2006

snoochface said:
I'm finding it interesting that no one who does not believe in once-saved-always-saved feels like they can answer my questions. Is it that ambiguous a doctrine?

YEP, it sure is. And the same statement that Satan can't touch you.

snoochface · Sep 7, 2006

Elijah2 said:
YEP, it sure is. And the same statement that Satan can't touch you.

So since you don't believe once-saved-always-saved, can you give me your thoughts on my questions? I'm not saying they have to be right, or dead-on, or that I'll even agree with them, but I am very interested to hear the opinion of someone on your side of the issue.

Dyin2live · Sep 7, 2006

i believe that if ur really saved, whenever u sin ul feel real bad and u wont feel good untill u confess it to the Lord. (thats how i am at least.)

but if ur not saved ull sin and sin and feel no remorse and just because u prayed the sinners prayer u think u are saved. These people hav not really been enlightended. They are of the world and dont really want to be saved.

But for us that have been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift, theyl feel remorse whenever they sin and theyll always want to pray to God at least once or twice a day. Theyl try to resist temptation and help others. These people are saved and can never be taken from the Lord because they are dependant on Him and truly love Him more than nething. When no one else is there for them the Lord always is. This is how i feel and even tho I sin I feel remorse and sadness and i need frogiveness to go on. U want to know God more and more and u always want to seek Him. This is how i feel and I believe u are truly saved and u are a child of God if u are like this. ...........
..........wow i think the Holy spirit helped me give u guys this message.. I feel as if God is talking thru me..kinda cool.

Anyway God Bless u all
and read this message all it will help u get ur facts straight. This message is the truth. IM pretty sure God is using me to rite this.
Keep seeking Him and praising and worshipping him and obeying Him because this pleases Him. If u love God obey his commands. Because if u love Him U will want to please Him.

God is always with u brothers and sisters. Amen MAY HE COME SOON!!!

Elijah2 · Sep 7, 2006

Dyin2live said:
i believe that if ur really saved, whenever u sin ul feel real bad and u wont feel good untill u confess it to the Lord. (thats how i am at least.)

but if ur not saved ull sin and sin and feel no remorse and just because u prayed the sinners prayer u think u are saved. These people hav not really been enlightended. They are of the world and dont really want to be saved.

But for us that have been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift, theyl feel remorse whenever they sin and theyll always want to pray to God at least once or twice a day. Theyl try to resist temptation and help others. These people are saved and can never be taken from the Lord because they are dependant on Him and truly love Him more than nething. When no one else is there for them the Lord always is. This is how i feel and even tho I sin I feel remorse and sadness and i need frogiveness to go on. U want to know God more and more and u always want to seek Him. This is how i feel and I believe u are truly saved and u are a child of God if u are like this. ...........
..........wow i think the Holy spirit helped me give u guys this message.. I feel as if God is talking thru me..kinda cool.

Anyway God Bless u all
and read this message all it will help u get ur facts straight. This message is the truth. IM pretty sure God is using me to rite this.
Keep seeking Him and praising and worshipping him and obeying Him because this pleases Him. If u love God obey his commands. Because if u love Him U will want to please Him.

God is always with u brothers and sisters. Amen MAY HE COME SOON!!!

AMEN....It won't be long!!!

snoochface · Sep 8, 2006

Okay... I think the lack of response is, in itself, a response. Thanks.

MikeMcK · Sep 9, 2006

Dyin2live said:
is there any truth to this?

Yes, it is true. It is God's promise to us.

It is often said that the person who believes in OSAS believes that he has a lisence to sin, but that isn't true, because the person who is saved, who has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit no longer has the desire to serve sin in the first place. If someone believes that OSAS is an excuse to sin, then that person most likely is a false convert and was never saved to begin with.

Let me offer you seven reasons why a saved person can't be lost:

1. Nothing can separate you from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus your Lord.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)Neither death nor anything that happens after death, or anything that happens while you're living can separate you from God's love. If there were no other verse in the Bible that deals with eternal security, this one covers the base.

2. When you are saved, you are made perfect forever.

For by one offering He [Jesus] hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14)When Jesus died on the cross, He saved you forever. Jesus offered one sacrifice for sin forever. If you ever lost your salvation, in order for you to be saved again, Jesus would have to die again. By one offering He has perfected forever those who were sanctified.

3. Our Lord always finishes what He begins.

Being confident of this very thing, that He [God] which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6)Let me tell you what the Holy Spirit of God does for your salvation. First, He convicted you of sin. Second, He converted you. And the Convictor and the Converter is also the Completer. If God fails to finish what He's begun God has failed and He cannot fail.

4. You are predestined to be like Jesus.

For whom He [God] did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Romans 8:29)God saw you before this world was put in space. He saw you repent of your sin and ask Jesus to save you. And when God saw that, not only did He foreknow it, but also He predestinated it. If it is settled in eternity how can it be undone in time?

5. You are in Christ.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17)You are in Christ just like Noah was in the ark. The ark was a picture of Jesus and when Noah went into that ark God shut the door. Noah may have fallen down a lot of times in that ark, but he never fell out of it. Your security is not in a place, it is in a Person and His name is Jesus. And if you're in Jesus, you're secure and if you're not in Jesus you're not secure.

6. You already have eternal life.

Heareth My word, and believeth on him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24)Everlasting life is not something you get when you die. Everlasting life is something you get when you receive Jesus. If I have everlasting life, when can it end? Suppose I had it 10 years and it ended. Did I have everlasting life? No, I had a 10-year life. Whatever you have, if you ever lose it, whatever it was it wasn't everlasting.

7. The Lord Jesus Christ is ever interceding for you.

I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given Me; for they are Thine. (John 17:9)Jesus also prayed: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil...Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word" (John 17:15, 20). Say your name in that verse because Jesus prayed for you! Has Jesus ever prayed a prayer that wasn't answered? No, not one (see John 11:42 and Hebrews 7:25).

MikeMcK · Sep 9, 2006

double post

GregoryTurner · Sep 9, 2006

One very important thing... God loves even the sinners that do not know Him. Nothing can separate them from the love of God either, except themselves.

Dyin2live · Sep 10, 2006

MikeMcK said:
Yes, it is true. It is God's promise to us.

It is often said that the person who believes in OSAS believes that he has a lisence to sin, but that isn't true, because the person who is saved, who has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit no longer has the desire to serve sin in the first place. If someone believes that OSAS is an excuse to sin, then that person most likely is a false convert and was never saved to begin with.

Let me offer you seven reasons why a saved person can't be lost:

1. Nothing can separate you from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus your Lord.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)Neither death nor anything that happens after death, or anything that happens while you're living can separate you from God's love. If there were no other verse in the Bible that deals with eternal security, this one covers the base.

2. When you are saved, you are made perfect forever.

For by one offering He [Jesus] hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14)When Jesus died on the cross, He saved you forever. Jesus offered one sacrifice for sin forever. If you ever lost your salvation, in order for you to be saved again, Jesus would have to die again. By one offering He has perfected forever those who were sanctified.

3. Our Lord always finishes what He begins.

Being confident of this very thing, that He [God] which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6)Let me tell you what the Holy Spirit of God does for your salvation. First, He convicted you of sin. Second, He converted you. And the Convictor and the Converter is also the Completer. If God fails to finish what He's begun God has failed and He cannot fail.

4. You are predestined to be like Jesus.

For whom He [God] did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Romans 8:29)God saw you before this world was put in space. He saw you repent of your sin and ask Jesus to save you. And when God saw that, not only did He foreknow it, but also He predestinated it. If it is settled in eternity how can it be undone in time?

5. You are in Christ.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17)You are in Christ just like Noah was in the ark. The ark was a picture of Jesus and when Noah went into that ark God shut the door. Noah may have fallen down a lot of times in that ark, but he never fell out of it. Your security is not in a place, it is in a Person and His name is Jesus. And if you're in Jesus, you're secure and if you're not in Jesus you're not secure.

6. You already have eternal life.

Heareth My word, and believeth on him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24)Everlasting life is not something you get when you die. Everlasting life is something you get when you receive Jesus. If I have everlasting life, when can it end? Suppose I had it 10 years and it ended. Did I have everlasting life? No, I had a 10-year life. Whatever you have, if you ever lose it, whatever it was it wasn't everlasting.

7. The Lord Jesus Christ is ever interceding for you.

I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given Me; for they are Thine. (John 17:9)Jesus also prayed: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil...Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word" (John 17:15, 20). Say your name in that verse because Jesus prayed for you! Has Jesus ever prayed a prayer that wasn't answered? No, not one (see John 11:42 and Hebrews 7:25).

thanks Mike u made a great and long post. I can tell u put alot of time into it and let me tell u, it really helped me out alot!!! Now i No that the only way we cant be saved is if we like deny Jesus or completely change our religion and lose belief in Him. Thanks alot
God bless

Elijah2 · Sep 10, 2006

snoochface said:
So since you don't believe once-saved-always-saved, can you give me your thoughts on my questions? I'm not saying they have to be right, or dead-on, or that I'll even agree with them, but I am very interested to hear the opinion of someone on your side of the issue.

Hi Smoothface,

I thought I had answer your question, and I didn't realise that you want some concrete evidence of this doctrinal belief, which is probably hard to produce, because most things like this has ascertained from personal experience, and discernment.

Many such people who quote this, continue to sin, by working in the grey areas between white and black.

Now in Mark 3:28, it says, "Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they many utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemantion."

Now if a Christian uses His Name in vain, and they are saved, then are they still saved after using His Name in vain?

Now if a Christian is convicted of a sin and continues to sin, and they are saved, then are they still saved while continuing to sin?

Now if a Christian is involved in being involved with a pyramid selling scheme, which is illegal, and they change the name for legal reasons, and they know that what they are involved in is illegal and is sin, and they are saved, then are they still saved while they continue to be involved in an illegal selling and sinning within the Body of Christ.

Now, these are only a few of my personal experiences of what I believe that those people believe that once saved---always saved---even though they continue to sin.

Reyanah · Nov 9, 2006

You have to walk in love and forgiveness otherwise you cant get forgiveness for your sins....Jesus said love the Lord your God with all your heart mind soul and strength and love your neighbor as yourslef. We need to abide in Him and His words in us and have a daily relationship with him in order to grow. Getting saved and sitting on s tump waiting for heaven....doesn't do much.

bigdAddyweAve423 · Nov 9, 2006

I feel that if you confess faith in Christ & give your life over to Him, wholeheartedly; you wouldnt want to do the things you used to do, with Christ living in you.

So, I would have to say if you confess Christ as your Lord & Savior & you still want to do the things you used to do, I would be asking if you really accepted Him at all. Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5:17 - "Therefore, if anyone is in Chirst, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new hs come."

When you become a Christian, you now longer do the things you used to do, cause you are no longer who you used to be.

With that being said, God's Grace is sufficient. Being a Christian we are still subject to temptation & sin. Given what I just said above, If you are a Christian & you sin, where do you draw the line???

I think it is a matter of the Life you live, we all sin. So I think it really come down to the Life you live & the Fruit you bear.

I dont have the answers, just one man's opinion. Hope this helps, God Bless.

Dace · Nov 15, 2006

wow I just read this thread through and i'm still none the wiser. I think ultimately God is the only one who knows if a person is saved or not, so I guess we should just leave that to Him.

Rafael · Nov 24, 2006

2Pe 1:10 So, dear brothers and sisters, work hard to prove that you really are among those God has called and chosen. Doing this, you will never stumble or fall away.

Pr 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: 30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. 31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Joshua (NLT) 24:15 ¶ But if you are unwilling to serve the LORD, then choose today whom you will serve. Would you prefer the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates? Or will it be the gods of the Amorites in whose land you now live? But as for me and my family, we will serve the LORD."

De 30:19 "Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, that you and your descendants might live!

De (NLT) 30:19 "Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, that you and your descendants might live! 20 Choose to love the LORD your God and to obey him and commit yourself to him, for he is your life. Then you will live long in the land the LORD swore to give your ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."

Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

2 Peter 2:9 ¶ The Lord isnt really being slow about his promise to return, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to perish, so he is giving more time for everyone to repent.

heymikey80 · Nov 24, 2006

Dace said:
wow I just read this thread through and i'm still none the wiser. I think ultimately God is the only one who knows if a person is saved or not, so I guess we should just leave that to Him.

He does say that you can know you have eternal life.

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:18

holderz · Nov 26, 2006

Dyin2live said:
is there any truth to this?

Hi, Dyin2live yes thats true once your saved (according to the Word of God not me)
you can never lose your salvation

as it is the work of God and as it says in his word clearly, his work is perfect
Deu 32:4 "The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.

once you have believed in Christ you receive eternal life
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Joh 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, (you cant lose it again) and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

No work of the hand on man or any work for that matter, is strong enough to break Gods work.
Rom 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Plus personal sin of the believer has no effect on your salvation either since Jesus Christ sorted that problem at the cross (past, present & future) all was dealt with & finished (Joh 3:15-18, Col 2:13-14)

Dyin2live, a cool area of doctrine to study to get you clear on this, is the doctrine of Soteriology (the doctrines of salvation) I have some cool links on this, if you would like any, just say so and I will hook you up.

regards

Question for all of you who say you can lose salvation, if Gods work is perfert & he is eternal, how can God who is all powerful, who never makes a wrong choice, whos work never fails, devise something that can be unperfect & broken by the power of a weak human being??

Dyin2live · Nov 26, 2006

i beleiev you

JPH · Dec 5, 2006

Dyin2live said:
is there any truth to this?

When you were forgiven did JESUS forgive you of all of your sins or just a few.All of them right.Sins of your past present and future.All of your sins were forgiven.
We know that one sin can send you to Hell and christians we still sin.So hopefully you dont forget to confess or repent of every sin every day so you can be "saved again."Oh yeah Jesus said you must be born again and again and again.silly right?
Jesus died for all of my sins past present and future because all of our sins were future sins 2000 years ago when he died.
We as believers are no longer under the law and commandments.He did away with that nailing it to the tree.Our judjment is past.He paid our debt in full not just part way.
I work in a prison and I look at it this way, we were found guilty of our crime,Jesus paid our debt and we were set free.WE ARE NOT ON PROBATION OR PAROLE .SO THE NEXT TIME WE MESS UP WE ARE BACK IN PRISON.
I was in bondage to a legalistic church that taught you can lose your salvation if you are not careful.So I lived a fearful stressed out christian life.JESUSis holding on to you not you holding on to him.You have no strenth or ability to do that on your own.
Salvation is putting your complete trust in him and his word.
I recommend books about GRACE.Study the topic and I think you will be relieved with what you find and you will grow in your appreciation and thankfulness for the salvation Jesus purchased for you.I doubt you will turn up your nose atGOD and run to sin.Those that do that without remorse guilt and repentance were perhaps not saved to begin with.
If you want i will look up scriptures for you.
PEACE!
Fear not ,he the SON sets free is free indeed!
J

Dyin2live · Dec 7, 2006

JPH said:
When you were forgiven did JESUS forgive you of all of your sins or just a few.All of them right.Sins of your past present and future.All of your sins were forgiven.
We know that one sin can send you to Hell and christians we still sin.So hopefully you dont forget to confess or repent of every sin every day so you can be "saved again."Oh yeah Jesus said you must be born again and again and again.silly right?
Jesus died for all of my sins past present and future because all of our sins were future sins 2000 years ago when he died.
We as believers are no longer under the law and commandments.He did away with that nailing it to the tree.Our judjment is past.He paid our debt in full not just part way.
I work in a prison and I look at it this way, we were found guilty of our crime,Jesus paid our debt and we were set free.WE ARE NOT ON PROBATION OR PAROLE .SO THE NEXT TIME WE MESS UP WE ARE BACK IN PRISON.
I was in bondage to a legalistic church that taught you can lose your salvation if you are not careful.So I lived a fearful stressed out christian life.JESUSis holding on to you not you holding on to him.You have no strenth or ability to do that on your own.
Salvation is putting your complete trust in him and his word.
I recommend books about GRACE.Study the topic and I think you will be relieved with what you find and you will grow in your appreciation and thankfulness for the salvation Jesus purchased for you.I doubt you will turn up your nose atGOD and run to sin.Those that do that without remorse guilt and repentance were perhaps not saved to begin with.
If you want i will look up scriptures for you.
PEACE!
Fear not ,he the SON sets free is free indeed!
J

so ur saying when we sin, we are still saved? I thought we hav to confess everytime we mess up or else we are not saved....
.. this makes more sense to me.

And i feel remorse and sorrow and i try to repent and sanctify myself of habitual sins from before i was saved.

once saved, always saved?

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