Once Saved Always Saved? true or false?

Accept Jesus Sacrifice and all your sins are forgiven. There is no sin you can commit that you wont had already recieved forgiveness for, so no matter what once saved always saved.

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Errm.... Is this not straight forward antinomianism?

Crispie said:

Accept Jesus Sacrifice and all your sins are forgiven. There is no sin you can commit that you wont had already recieved forgiveness for, so no matter what once saved always saved.

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So Crispie, since you are allegedly saved, you could come over to my house and kill my family (we are filthy infidels deserving of death) and still get your way into heaven.

Is that what you are saying? You are saying that there is no sin you can commit that you won't had already recieved forgiviness for? Is that what you are saying?

You can't be saying that. You can't believe that and also and believe the idea that God is Just.

doubtingmerle said:

Oh, please do be serious.

Do you really think that a child stealing a cookie is as bad as murder? Surely you can't possibly be serious.

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If I try to look at it from a conservative Christian perspective, I come up with this:

If you have sinned, then you cannot go to Heaven. To avoid eternal torment in the Lake of Fire, a cookie thief needs to be cleansed by the blood of Christ just as much as a murderer does.

If one believes in an eternal Heaven and Hell and that one's temporal life determines one's eternal abode, then one must believe that the most important consequences of one's actions are the eternal ones.

OSAS is totally false. If this philosophy was true, then one would be able to be an unrepentant sinner and still get into heaven b/c he/she "believed that Christ was my Saviour." Sorry, faith w/o works is dead.

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This is typical of how people have no idea about what OSAS means.

Once Saved Always Saved,

Firstly, things this does not mean:

We can just sin as much as we want.
We don't have to repent.
We cannot reject Christ and "loose" our salvation

Things is does mean:

When I sin, that does not "un-save" me, I do not have to be "re-saved" every time I sin, as has been said, the saving has been done on he cross.
If you sin and you know it, you push away from God, but if you are saved, then it is never too late to come back.

In essence OSAS is saying, Jesus has rid me of my sin, and he has saved me. However, because I am human, I still mess up. Even though I mess up, God loves me and does not therefore reject me when I sin, but waits to accept me back. Once I am saved; once I have accepted Jesus' sacrifice and believe in him, no act can divorce me from that, I cannot sin badly enough that God will not have me back.

As to the point that was made:

I would really like to see the misinterpreted Bible verse that is being used to validate this position.

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You and I, Stormy, have crossed swords on this topic before. Your attitude was somewhat amiss then, and it is still now.

Stop assuming that you are right and that someone must be lying if they disagree.

" NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us,. . ." Titus 3:5

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8,9

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". . .by the righteousness of one THE FREE GIFT came upon all men unto justification of life." Romans 5:18

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"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, SHALL BE ABLE TO SEPARATE US from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38

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"My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." John 10:29

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". . .for he hath said, I WILL NEVER LEAVE THEE, nor forsake thee." Hebrews 13:5

". . . and, lo, I am with you ALWAY, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:20

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". . . him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT." John 6:37

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"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL. . . For by one offering he hath PERFECTED FOR EVER them that are sanctified." Hebrews 10:10,14

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This was all cut and paste, I didn't even find any of this, I just read it all.

The problem is....people say hey they go on a murder rampage etc after saved and still are saved but your forgetting we recieve the Holy Spirit, and we change, its extremely rare for a true christian to actually go on a murder ramapge. We change, we become righteous in christ and have Gods guidence.

Crispie said:

The problem is....people say hey they go on a murder rampage etc after saved and still are saved but your forgetting we recieve the Holy Spirit, and we change, its extremely rare for a true christian to actually go on a murder ramapge. We change, we become righteous in christ and have Gods guidence.

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I'm curious. Are Christians less likely to commit crimes than nonchristians?

no, you can lose your salvation

Kathleen111 said:

....
You've heard of the Fear of the Lord? Well, proverbs tells us that God chatises those he loves. And sister am I loved. I can't even think about doing something wrong without being busted. That's the clincher. When you become saved you become disciplined. The root word in discipline is disciple. Oh my, honey, He will smack you down that straight and narrow if you are really and truly saved. Sometimes I have to wonder if that is what is preventing people from calling to God to receive the Holy Spirit? A saved person can't get away with anything. I think so too about once that Holy Spirit is in there, it's in there, and it's always going to work to keep you on that path home.

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So true, Kathleen. The true smackdown! I'm not allowed to get away with much at all and I love God all the more for that!

We are not unsaved because we continue in the normal everyday sin - in fact we are never without sin - but our salvation is proved when we turn back to God in repentence for sin.

Crispie said:

Accept Jesus Sacrifice and all your sins are forgiven. There is no sin you can commit that you wont had already recieved forgiveness for, so no matter what once saved always saved.

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i really have to disagree with this. i dont believe that you past present and future sins are forgiven when you accept christ. your past sins yes. but if your future sins were forgiven as well why even have a walk with christ. your going to make it into heaven. so who cares? wrong. we have really cheapened salvation here. it sounds like something you can just pick up and drop off whenever you want to. when it says in the bible that you have to repent the word repent really means to change sides. so when you accept Christ you then are going for him. but that does not mean that never again you can never go against Christ again. once you step out of the will of the lord you will face his judgement and you will then again be fighting against him. great question by the way

Crispie said:

Accept Jesus Sacrifice and all your sins are forgiven. There is no sin you can commit that you wont had already recieved forgiveness for, so no matter what once saved always saved.

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Not even blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?

God wont force us to stick with him. That is still our choice untill we die. Nothing can snatch us out of his hand, but he wont stop us from jumping.

sad that this can bring such separation within brothers and sisters

I find it interesting that the Bible is so unclear on this topic. Christians have debated this issue for a long time and I think a case can plausibly made one way the other. I suppose that begs the question as to why God didn't go to lengths to make it clearer in the Bible. I think after all everybody would agree this is an important if not vital subject? Then why is the Bible so ambiguous? My opinion is that the Bible was never ever written with the intent of conveying doctrines or theology. To me the lack of clarity on this topic is evidence that the Bible is not in fact inspired, but was written by man.

Here's the thing that cracks me up about those who believe it is possible to lose salvation..........ask them if they can get it back.............now ask them how many times


Seeing as works cannot save us but only damn us , it stands to reason that the basis of salvation , upon faith , closes the door once and forever on salvation by works or the lack of them.

How many "good works" did the saved thief on the cross do ?
He just believed upon Jesus and was SAVED.

The classic Bible verse is Hebrews 6 , examine it carefully and notice Paul says "but we speak of better things that accompany salvation" this is said directly after things that obviously DO NOT include salvation !

Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[1] and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And God permitting, we will do so.
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[2] to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.
9Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case--things that accompany salvation.

PacoRivera126 said:

i really have to disagree with this. i dont believe that you past present and future sins are forgiven when you accept christ. your past sins yes. but if your future sins were forgiven as well why even have a walk with christ. your going to make it into heaven. so who cares? wrong. we have really cheapened salvation here. it sounds like something you can just pick up and drop off whenever you want to. when it says in the bible that you have to repent the word repent really means to change sides. so when you accept Christ you then are going for him. but that does not mean that never again you can never go against Christ again. once you step out of the will of the lord you will face his judgement and you will then again be fighting against him. great question by the way

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With that logic your saying if i were to lie then die before repenting of my sins then Im doomed to hell, though I was forgiven of my sins through Jesus sacrifice. Once God gives you the inheritance of heaven and makes you part of his family, hes not going to go and through you out and wait for you to repent to be put back into his family constantly, no, his forgiveness and Jesus sacrifice is eternal past present and future.

has anyone ever heard of the book of james??? he talks about faith without works i dead. and work without faith is dead. faith and works CANNOT be seperated. Christ says that he will judge your heart and nothing more. you can lose your salvation because your heart can drift from God. Yes, the sacrifice of Christ is eternal but only if you accept it. so, lets talk about logic crispie. using your logic if i were to be baptized when i was 8 then did nothing for the kingdom of God. in fact i go out and start a terrorist group that their only aim is to kill christians. but hey who cares i get into heaven. because as you say, once saved always saved.

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PacoRivera126 said:

has anyone ever heard of the book of james??? he talks about faith without works i dead. and work without faith is dead. faith and works CANNOT be seperated.

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Agreed, eternal securiy believers would just say that good works accompany faith, and will successfully flow from the believer's faith. They are the outside showing of our righteousness.

Ephesians 2
10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Christ says that he will judge your heart and nothing more. you can lose your salvation because your heart can drift from God.

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I don't think most eternal securty believrsw ould deny this, however, there is a world of difference between "drift from God" and "total apostasy."

Yes, the sacrifice of Christ is eternal but only if you accept it. so, lets talk about logic crispie. using your logic if i were to be baptized when i was 8 then did nothing for the kingdom of God. in fact i go out and start a terrorist group that their only aim is to kill christians. but hey who cares i get into heaven. because as you say, once saved always saved.

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Sounds more like Antinomianism to me.

Do you believe that just because you were baptised when you were eight you were a Christ, and had the compnents of true, saving faith?

As illustareted in the parable of The Sower, the unregenrate, insaved man can ive of a strong appearence of true faith, but will wither away with the ones who show themselves to be sinful and carnal.

God Bless

True.. Once saved, always saved.

NKJV version
Epheseians 1
13In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.


NASB
Ephesians 1
12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in [1] Christ would be (1) to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him, you also, after listening to (2) the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were (3) sealed in Him with (4) the Holy Spirit of promise,
14 who is (5) given as a pledge of (6) our inheritance, with a view to the (7) redemption of (8) God's own possession, (9) to the praise of His glory.
Footnotes

I.e. the Messiah

Show cross-references

1. Eph 1:6, 14
2. Eph 4:21; Col 1:5
3. Eph 4:30
4. Acts 2:33
5. 2 Cor 1:22
6. Acts 20:32
7. Eph 1:7
8. Eph 1:11
9. Eph 1:6, 12

"He that endures to the end shall be saved" Mt 10:22

You can only undure to the end once (there is only one end).
Once you are at the end, and have endured to that point, you are saved.

Because you cannot go back to before the end once you have arrived there, your salvation is irreversible: you have been saved once (at one time in the past), saved once (one time only) and saved at once (you are now resurrected).


In God, once is enough.
In God, 1 +1 +1 = 1.

LilRitt04 said:

It seems like there is no true answer to this question, but I want to know peoples insights on it. What do you all believe? How can you justify it? What makes you think that way?

I dont understand it when people say that once you are saved you are always saved. How is that true? If you sin doesnt that mean you are in wrong doing and must repent for it? But people argue that God saved us eternally...How does it work. I have seen it were people back it up with scripture...but then I can back it up and say its wrong. So which is it? My boyfriend for example backs it up with scripture that once you are saved you are always saved. But then I came back and said NO...but then he was like how could you say that when God said in his word that he will never leave or forsake us. So I said "Well, he wont...we leave him by committing sins that we do everyday naturally."

I could argue this until I am blue in the face...God will never leave us or break the promises but how can people justify that once you are saved you are always saved. I really dont understand...Somoene please give me some insight on this! Thanks

God Bless,
Jenn

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Jenn,

I am with you on this though that was not always the case. For 15 years I was a believer in OSAS, but a return to my Lutheran roots enabled me to see that OSAS is false. OSAS is a false sense of security that is promoted by American Evangelicalism as truth.

The problem is that many of the churches in this movement do not believe in the total depravity of man. When Adam and Eve sinned they no longer had the potential to do anything good on their own. Without God they only had the penchant for sin. They did obtain the knowledge of Good and Evil but lost their free will to do good and had only the ability to do evil because they chose to be independent of God.

God gave Moses the law to be a mirror to man of what sin is and what it does. Anyone who can keep the entire law is righteous, but we found that we can not keep the law apart from him. God then gave us his Son who was able to keep the commandments and become a sacrificial atonement for our sins. Because he was able to keep the commandments he fulfilled the law as the only one who was righteous. (see Romans 7) Christ then sent us the Holy Spirit who would help us to keep the commandments because they would be written on our hearts.

Now just because we have the Holy Spirit doesn't mean that we have lost the ability to sin. That is still in us. We also have our own will to do as we please and that will has the ability to reject Christ if it so pleases.

If that is the case we do not have any guarantees that once we have been chosen that we will remain chosen. What we do have is that God's mercy and grace are available to us through the sacraments and in receiving the sacraments we are blessed and forgiven for the sins we have confessed and been absolved. It is just that there is always that chance that we could possibly reject him.

I realize that there are those who will disagree with me but as I mentioned in one of the paragraphs above see Romans 7. I believe that it correctly shows that while we have God's grace there is still our pesky will that can thwart our efforts.