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QuagDabPeg said:I've always wondered about this. What if someone was saved and then later rejected Jesus - how are they still saved? Although maybe one could agrue that they were never saved in the first place, but in that case how do you ever know if you are really saved because there are certainly people who seem (and believe themselves) to be saved and then later something happens that make them turn against Christ. Maybe I'm not understanding the doctrine correctly though.
eldermike said:How can I say this? Let me try this. To give up salvation you would need for Jesus to go back to the cross and get off of it alive and walk away.
How do you figure?
Then how do you figure that if we let go of our faith, Christ has to go back in time and come down off the cross and walk away alive?
What about the verses (some quoted above) that say you can fall away and lose your salvation, even after being made partakers of the Holy Spirit?eldermike said:What I said was a parallel to something impossible. You can't walk away from your faith.
Where in the Bible does it say that?eldermike said:Faith is not something you muster, it's a gift not only given by God, it is God.
No, we are saved by [God's] grace, through [our] faith--it is saying here that God's grace is a gift, not that faith is; that grace is God's to give and not ours to earn by works, not that God is the only source of faith. We are saved by believing, rather than believing by being saved. And the Bible is clear on the point that we are able to permanently fall away after having become God's children (with the evidences that accompany that).eldermike said:Apart from God, you can do nothing to please God. Hense, your faith is due completely by the action of God in you.
eldermike said:What I said was a parallel to something impossible. You can't walk away from your faith. Faith is not something you muster, it's a gift not only given by God, it is God. Apart from God, you can do nothing to please God. Hense, your faith is due completely by the action of God in you.
costlygrace said:"For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them...
You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness"
2 Peter 2:21;3:17
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [27] but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. Hebrews 10:26-27
Hebrews 6 gives us a big reason to "press on to maturity"--which is so that we will not fall away after being saved. This is perhaps the passage that shows us most clearly that we can indeed lose our salvation after having become God's children:
"For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, [5] and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, [6] and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame." Hebrews 6:4-6
Can you guarantee that every member of your church truly beleives in Christ? Are some there because their family expects it? Or because they want to be 'upstanding' in the community? Say they believe but don't show evidence of the work of the Spirit?"Therefore, let us fear lest, while a promise remains of entering His rest, some of you may seem to have come short of it." Hebrews 4:1 If we cease to believe, even in the future, and do not repent, we will reap the consequences of doing so.
[Let's just say that if you can lose your salvation by doubting, sinning, turning your back on God for a while or being out of fellowship with the body of Believers, I'm cooked!
/QUOTE]
We all are. Amen!
Born again, is not born again and again. There is no scripture on born again, died again. Christ died once, we died once, Christ rose once, we rose once. Keeping the faith to the end is not about salvation, it's a promise. Mt 28:20
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
SonOfThunder said:It seems a difficult concept to me that a person that has been given eternal life can keep it if they go against what God commands. We all sin and the Nt is always correcting and warning. terms like 'luke warm' the 'vine that bears no fruit is cut off' Obedienace matters to God so it should matter to us as believers.
I cant get my head around God accepting anyone who decides to go against God for the rest of their lives.
It's way to scary for me to think about
James
SonOfThunder said:It seems a difficult concept to me that a person that has been given eternal life can keep it if they go against what God commands. We all sin and the Nt is always correcting and warning. terms like 'luke warm' the 'vine that bears no fruit is cut off' Obedienace matters to God so it should matter to us as believers.
I cant get my head around God accepting anyone who decides to go against God for the rest of their lives.
It's way to scary for me to think about
James
FreeinChrist said:If they go against God for the rest of their life, their fruit shows they were never saved.
It is God who draws, grants, and gives us to Christ. He knows if we truly beleive or not.
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