On Why It Is Socially Acceptable To Target Gays....

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/interviews/franklin.html


When you conducted your studies around the Bay area, did you find the sense that gays made socially acceptable targets?

I did. That was interesting, because the Bay area is a very progressive, liberal area, and I found strong endorsement for gay civil rights among my survey respondents. But I still found an overwhelming amount of anti-gay behaviors. Name-calling is especially very ubiquitous. About 70 percent of respondents said that their male friends had done name-calling. So, everybody knew people who targeted gays for at least name-calling, if not more physical acts. And again, it's not so much that the individuals harbor hatred and resentment. It's more that there's a cultural backdrop in which it's really permissible, if not very cool, to assault or harass gays. . . . One out of ten of the college students--and this is a non-criminal young adult population--said that they had either threatened or actually physically assaulted somebody they thought was a gay man or a lesbian

This raises an interesting question. The Bible definately says love even your enemy and homosexual practice is error, this means a disciple and follower of Christ isn't wilfully going to bash anyone or willfully indulge in sex outside marriage. But I guess if some dont believe one others might not believe the other.

This raises an interesting question. The Bible definately says love even your enemy and homosexual practice is error, this means a disciple and follower of Christ isn't wilfully going to bash anyone or willfully indulge in sex outside marriage. But I guess if some dont believe one others might not believe the other.

Well, I find the Christian obsession with homosexuality very interesting. It would seem that (except perhaps for abortion) it's the number one "sin" that Christians abhor, hence the outcry about gay marriage and gays in the military. This is all very hypocritical -- why is there no outcry against adultery, divorce or child pornography? There are many websites and organizations devoted to opposing gay marriage and gay rights, and they are mostly riddled with erroneous (lying) information, as is constantly pointed out by boxturtlebulletin.com. Lying is apparently not a sin. There is a prominent internet evangelist who is obsessed with how gay rights and abortion are destroying America -- yet his own son is a convicted paedophile, and he seems okay with that.

Heterosexism and homophobia provides a convenient distraction to folks for whom LGBTs constitute "the other"---a group identified as different from the in-group and not as good, toward which the rank and file tend to have an unfamiarity and suspicion. IMO, to attack "the other" constitutes a power play---and power is what the whole thing is all about for those orchestrating such things.

Texas Lynn said:

Heterosexism and homophobia provides a convenient distraction to folks for whom LGBTs constitute "the other"---a group identified as different from the in-group and not as good, toward which the rank and file tend to have an unfamiarity and suspicion. IMO, to attack "the other" constitutes a power play---and power is what the whole thing is all about for those orchestrating such things.

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Whilethat is probably true, it sidesteps the interesting question of "why?"

catlover said:

One out of ten of the college students--and this is a non-criminal young adult population--said that they had either threatened or actually physically assaulted somebody they thought was a gay man or a lesbian

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And ask these same "college" students, what views they hold towards "Born again Christians?" Ask them as they are leaving their "college" biology, philosophy, sociology or paleontology classes.

In public schools gay sex is promoted: GSA, GLSEN, PFLAG, GLBT, ACLU, and prayer is illegal. Christianty is NOT socially acceptable by law.

Evangelaphobia anyone? Not according to the ACLU. Harrassing and threatening Christians is quite the socially acceptable and indeed legal thing to do. "To them" Christians.

Bill Maher anyone? Or "college" professor Richard Dawkins? Christoper Hitchens? Sam Harris? ALL superstars of "society and especially "college students." Any C.S. Lewis and Mere Christianity classes in "public and socially acceptable" schools? College or otherwise?

Evolution?

Freethinkers?

Shall we compare what is and what isn't "socially acceptable" in
public and on college campuses? Gay sex is quite the photographed happening. Very socially acceptable in fact." Let's ask the ACLU, or HBO, or MTV.

"Girls Gone to Church," would be burned in the court yard or laughed at and denigrated in every classroom with complete acceptability. Well, actually they are verbally assaulted with complete social approval.

Polycarp_fan said:

And ask these same "college" students, what views they hold towards "Born again Christians?" Ask them as they are leaving their "college" biology, philosophy, sociology or paleontology classes.

In public schools gay sex is promoted: GSA, GLSEN, PFLAG, GLBT, ACLU, and prayer is illegal. Christianty is NOT socially acceptable by law.

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Well, PCF, as I have pointed out in the 'gay agenda' thread, you consistently misrepresent homosexuals, homosexuality, and the gay community. Some of the things you say are quite dangerous, resembling the myths spread about Jews in medieval Europe. In other words, you come rather close to verbal assault yourself.

Polycarp_fan said:

And ask these same "college" students, what views they hold towards "Born again Christians?" Ask them as they are leaving their "college" biology, philosophy, sociology or paleontology classes.

In public schools gay sex is promoted: GSA, GLSEN, PFLAG, GLBT, ACLU, and prayer is illegal. Christianty is NOT socially acceptable by law.

Evangelaphobia anyone? Not according to the ACLU. Harrassing and threatening Christians is quite the socially acceptable and indeed legal thing to do. "To them" Christians.

Bill Maher anyone? Or "college" professor Richard Dawkins? Christoper Hitchens? Sam Harris? ALL superstars of "society and especially "college students." Any C.S. Lewis and Mere Christianity classes in "public and socially acceptable" schools? College or otherwise?

Evolution?

Freethinkers?

Shall we compare what is and what isn't "socially acceptable" in
public and on college campuses? Gay sex is quite the photographed happening. Very socially acceptable in fact." Let's ask the ACLU, or HBO, or MTV.

"Girls Gone to Church," would be burned in the court yard or laughed at and denigrated in every classroom with complete acceptability. Well, actually they are verbally assaulted with complete social approval.

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That's a pretty weak parade of horribles. In Berkely--Berkeley!--one in ten college students admitted to at least threatening violence against gay people. Your parade of horribles only includes various bits of speech disagreeing with religious beliefs and nothing about private violence.

Polycarp_fan said:

And ask these same "college" students, what views they hold towards "Born again Christians?" Ask them as they are leaving their "college" biology, philosophy, sociology or paleontology classes.

In public schools gay sex is promoted: GSA, GLSEN, PFLAG, GLBT, ACLU, and prayer is illegal. Christianty is NOT socially acceptable by law.

Evangelaphobia anyone? Not according to the ACLU. Harrassing and threatening Christians is quite the socially acceptable and indeed legal thing to do. "To them" Christians.

Bill Maher anyone? Or "college" professor Richard Dawkins? Christoper Hitchens? Sam Harris? ALL superstars of "society and especially "college students." Any C.S. Lewis and Mere Christianity classes in "public and socially acceptable" schools? College or otherwise?

Evolution?

Freethinkers?

Shall we compare what is and what isn't "socially acceptable" in
public and on college campuses? Gay sex is quite the photographed happening. Very socially acceptable in fact." Let's ask the ACLU, or HBO, or MTV.

"Girls Gone to Church," would be burned in the court yard or laughed at and denigrated in every classroom with complete acceptability. Well, actually they are verbally assaulted with complete social approval.

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I guess some people do not know the difference between "target" and "disagree"...it figures that is why some Christians in America,wrongly, believe they are persecuted...

catlover said:

I guess some people do not know the difference between "target" and "disagree"...it figures that is why some Christians in America,wrongly, believe they are persecuted...

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We are not persecuted per se, we are hated and denigrated as an acceptable part of society. I guess you could call "outlawing" a form of disagreement, but I call it pure discrimination based on ones creed or religion.

Comparing "pop culture" as of today's date, gays are accepted and Christians are told to go live away from society.

Interesting to see this develpe in America so quickly.

From the Humanist Manifesto I, to gay marriage in less than a hundred years.

There are legions of groups dedicated to bashing Christians in the real world and of course on the internet. Including killing Christians (in real life), driving them OUT of the public square and on internet debate websites, and even to burning down their places of gatthering. Look our how many avowed anti Christians dwell here at Christian Forums dot com. Their very actions are to insult and bash and they see this as completely accpetable. ANY dissent towards gays, atheists and secularists, that is not delivered in the most extremely polite way, is dealt with by sanctions and elimination.

And of course, Christians expressing Christians view that counter the worldy secularism that both supports the gay agenda and the secular Humanist worldview, is as commplace as a liberal teacher/professor in a typical common public school.

ANY Christian groups doing TO gays and lesbians what secularists, pagans, atheists, "frrethinkers," Darwinists, evolutionists, liberals, progressives, gays and lesbians, DO TO Christians, is seen as a hate crime. yet Christians must reain either completely silent or speak only in their world.

The support for gays here at this website is legion as compared to support for those contending for "faith delivered only once to the saints," known as the New Testament position of the Apostles. Also know as "Christianity."

Hating Christians is a formula for succesful TV programs ( and movies and books) and as we have seen for decades, hating Christians can make a rock musicain filthy rich or an Atheist professor as famous as Charles Darwin.

HBO's Bill Maher will get complete applause from secular society for his upcoming Christian bashing movie, and the Christians that protest his bashing and hate mongering will be accused of hatred themselves, ignorance, intolerance and silenced.

Our learned scholars face the greatest of insults directed staright at them and scholars that openly revile Christians are seen as role models for our youth culture.

Reality is, Gays and Lesbians are widely held as heroes in today's secular society, and Christians that believe in the Bible as important as the Apostles contest it, are considered little more than pathetic figures at best. Watch a Bill Maher show. Or, read an atheist book referencing "Christians," and "Christianity."

Originally Posted by catlover

I guess some people do not know the difference between "target" and "disagree"...it figures that is why some Christians in America,wrongly, believe they are persecuted...

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I am not one of those people.

Polycarp_fan said:

And ask these same "college" students, what views they hold towards "Born again Christians?" Ask them as they are leaving their "college" biology, philosophy, sociology or paleontology classes.

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? Why those subjects?

In most colleges most would say "I'm one".

In public schools gay sex is promoted: GSA, GLSEN, PFLAG, GLBT, ACLU

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The notion these groups (ACLU? A lawyers' cocktail party?) "promote gay sex" is absurd. They merely acknowledge it exists. GLBT's not an association, it's a culture.

and prayer is illegal.

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Prayer is most definitely and assuredly NOT ILLEGAL in any school in the United States of america, nor will it ever be as long as there is testing going on.

What is illegal is OFFICIAL SECTARIAN COERCED MANDATORY prayer and most rightfully so even according to Jesus Christ in Matthew 6:1-7.

Christianty is NOT socially acceptable by law.

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That's an odd assertion to make in a country where 84%+ of the population are Christians.

Evangelaphobia anyone? Not according to the ACLU. Harrassing and threatening Christians is quite the socially acceptable and indeed legal thing to do. "To them" Christians.[/QUOTE}

????

I guess if you say anything loud no matter how ridiculous it is some will believe it.

Bill Maher anyone?

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Maher is a performer. He goes over the top at times, but AFAIK he's not yet blamed evangelicals for the decline and fall of Rome yet.

Or "college" professor Richard Dawkins? Christoper Hitchens? Sam Harris? ALL superstars of "society and especially "college students."

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Popular authors, so what? What do you want, to bann them? Every evangelical ought to read them carefully. Often a critic can be your best friend.

Any C.S. Lewis and Mere Christianity classes in "public and socially acceptable" schools? College or otherwise?

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Well, all I know is in my Ethics class at Tarrant County Junior College in Fort Worth the instructor was a former Catholic Monk who sold used cars on the side and covered both.

Concerning Lewis' epics I'm sure they're covered with the same respect George Lucas' are.

Evolution?

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What about it? Most Christians see no conflict between evolution and their faith.

Freethinkers?

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???? I'd like to see Voltaire and Sade given the same respect Kirkegaard and Hegel get...

Shall we compare what is and what isn't "socially acceptable" in
public and on college campuses?

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Okay, how about it? I can't help much because the college where my spouse teaches is a Jewish University (We're Christian and that's never been an issue) where many of the kids are Orthodox and Israeli or other foreign citizens and what's shocking to them (even the queer ones) is holding hands on the quad. We're kind of like Bob Jones University with intellectual rigor and less frowning.

Gay sex is quite the photographed happening. Very socially acceptable in fact." Let's ask the ACLU, or HBO, or MTV.

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Except on the porn channel at the Marriott I've never seen any kind of sex on TV. Of course to some who are naive holding hands is sex, like our international students.

College and the military, where lots of under 25s are present, are scenes of lots of immature drinking and debauchery...literally, many go wild. When my spouse had to be an administrator on call briefly it involved at least one jail release and one ER vist for alcohol poisioning for naive students 9sexual orientations irrelevant and unknown).

But "photographing gay sex"...I dunno. Oh, yeah, some slip into the bushes at the barbeque somebody may follow 'em with a cell phone camera---and send it to Bubie and Zaidie in Haifa!

"Girls Gone to Church,"

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would be burned in the court yard

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This is a parody, right?

or laughed at and denigrated in every classroom with complete acceptability. Well, actually they are verbally assaulted with complete social approval.

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You realize, of course, secular universities have religious student centers, right? At my Junior College at the time a lot of the LGBT students hung out in the Catholic Student Center where the director, a nun, was a good friend. the Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, and Episcopal Student Centers all had strong programs with a lot of student participation. Now our Jewish University does not have such things but we have plenty of Christian, Moslem, and unaffiliated students who attend programs at nearby churches and mosques and they are treated with respect.

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Texas Lynn said:

The notion these groups (ACLU? A lawyers' cocktail party?) "promote gay sex" is absurd. They merely acknowledge it exists. GLBT's not an association, it's a culture.

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May I quote you on the gay is "a culture" statement? You've made my day.

The ACLU demands tnat everyone accept gay sex and if they don't they will face the wrath of ACLU lawsuits.

Prayer is most definitely and assuredly NOT ILLEGAL in any school in the United States of america, nor will it ever be as long as there is testing going on.

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Parody right? Open prayer in the classroom would not be greeted with a standing ovation by the typical humanist prof. Or rather, the ubiquotous humanist prof.

What is illegal is OFFICIAL SECTARIAN COERCED MANDATORY prayer and most rightfully so even according to Jesus Christ in Matthew 6:1-7.

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Sounds like Jesus knew about gay pride parades. "If," America is mahority "Christians" how is it that the minority has outlawed prayer in schools? And just asking, but why do you think the Christians prayed while being executed in front of so many non and anti Christians back in the Roman days? Conservative liberals perhaps? I long to meet them someday. Martyrs that is.

That's an odd assertion to make in a country where 84%+ of the population are Christians.

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Wheat and chaff. Jesus knew all about America too. Have you ever seprated the wheat kernlas from the rest of the stuff? I have. It looked Less than 84% wheat kernals made up the wheat stalk.

Evangelaphobia anyone? Not according to the ACLU. Harrassing and threatening Christians is quite the socially acceptable and indeed legal thing to do. "To them" Christians.[/QUOTE}

????

I guess if you say anything loud no matter how ridiculous it is some will believe it.

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Prayer in school is not loud at all because of groups like the ACLU and that group directly.

Maher is a performer. He goes over the top at times, but AFAIK he's not yet blamed evangelicals for the decline and fall of Rome yet.

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If Maher ever said anything towards gays and lesbians as he does about Christians he would be doing stand up in inner city clubs.

Popular authors, so what? What do you want, to bann them? Every evangelical ought to read them carefully. Often a critic can be your best friend.

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Christians have read them carefully. At least Hitchens has the guts to go after more than just Christians. But the atheist critics are not in this for tolerance and diversity. They want authoritarian power. Even, more than they have.

Concerning Lewis' epics I'm sure they're covered with the same respect George Lucas' are.

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I mention Mere Christianity and you compare Star Wars to that?

What about it? Most Christians see no conflict between evolution and their faith.

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The Evolutionists do though. They are ruling society for some unknown reason. As we can see from your math, the majority "claim" they are Christians. Now we see why math is so important. Just like 0 x 0 = the atheist solution to the universe (hey, them not me) it stands to reason that the "majority" and in your math the vast majority of Americans, are not what they claim to be.

???? I'd like to see Voltaire and Sade given the same respect Kirkegaard and Hegel get...

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I'd like to see Christian apologists given the same amount of time as the garden variety freethinker ad man.

Okay, how about it? I can't help much because the college where my spouse teaches is a Jewish University (We're Christian and that's never been an issue) where many of the kids are Orthodox and Israeli or other foreign citizens and what's shocking to them (even the queer ones) is holding hands on the quad. We're kind of like Bob Jones University with intellectual rigor and less frowning.

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Christians are never an issue where they have no voice. Well yeah, I guess even there they have their tormentors.

Except on the porn channel at the Marriott I've never seen any kind of sex on TV. Of course to some who are naive holding hands is sex, like our international students.

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MTV has programs where gay sex is literally a choice.

College and the military, where lots of under 25s are present, are scenes of lots of immature drinking and debauchery...literally, many go wild. When my spouse had to be an administrator on call briefly it involved at least one jail release and one ER vist for alcohol poisioning for naive students 9sexual orientations irrelevant and unknown).

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Do you know of any "Christians" that endorse, promote and encourage those under-25ers to engage in the debauchery they do? I can only think of two expressions of Christian ideology that do. And neither go by the labels "Conservative or fundamentalist" Christian.

But "photographing gay sex"...I dunno. Oh, yeah, some slip into the bushes at the barbeque somebody may follow 'em with a cell phone camera---and send it to Bubie and Zaidie in Haifa!

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Some people do not care if their sex acts are filmed. Can you guess in what culture this happens?

You realize, of course, secular universities have religious student centers, right? At my Junior College at the time a lot of the LGBT students hung out in the Catholic Student Center where the director, a nun, was a good friend. the Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, and Episcopal Student Centers all had strong programs with a lot of student participation.

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And you do realize that those that desired to hold to the Apostolic witness on homosexuality have been ousted from some campuses?

Now our Jewish University does not have such things but we have plenty of Christian, Moslem, and unaffiliated students who attend programs at nearby churches and mosques and they are treated with respect.

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So, no tolerance and diversity? An existence away from the majority view? Away from others(?). That sounds familiar. Yes, that sounds very familiar.

Parody right? Open prayer in the classroom would not be greeted with a standing ovation by the typical humanist prof. Or rather, the ubiquotous humanist prof.

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Nope, not parody. The Supreme Court has ruled that any student initiated prayer can not be stopped or silenced, and any person who stops a student from praying is violating that student's Constitutional right of freedom of religion. What is illegal is a teacher or school led prayer, where the prayer is forced upon the student.

Polycarp_fan said:

May I quote you on the gay is "a culture" statement? You've made my day.

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Any time you want, sure, but I'm no expert on queer theory.

The ACLU demands tnat everyone accept gay sex and if they don't they will face the wrath of ACLU lawsuits.

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That's ridiculous. Everyone can accept or not whatever they want. They do however have to treat others with respect.

Parody right?

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Not at all.

Open prayer in the classroom would not be greeted with a standing ovation by the typical humanist prof. Or rather, the ubiquotous humanist prof.

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That's because a college classroom where class is in session is a place where such a thing would be inappropriate and boorish. But so would watching porn movies on a laptop.

Sounds like Jesus knew about gay pride parades.

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No doubt; he always favored the return of the oppressed.

"If," America is mahority "Christians" how is it that the minority has outlawed prayer in schools?

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The proposition is invalid because the item said to have occurred---"...outlawed prayer in the public schools"---has not occurred. The assertion otherwise is without basis.

And just asking, but why do you think the Christians prayed while being executed in front of so many non and anti Christians back in the Roman days? Conservative liberals perhaps? I long to meet them someday. Martyrs that is.

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Sure, and the lions said grace.

Prayer in school is not loud at all because of groups like the ACLU and that group directly.

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???

If Maher ever said anything towards gays and lesbians as he does about Christians he would be doing stand up in inner city clubs.

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He does and he is; I think he had a riff on Ted Haggard when that story broke.

Christians have read them carefully. At least Hitchens has the guts to go after more than just Christians.

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Agreed.

But the atheist critics are not in this for tolerance and diversity. They want authoritarian power. Even, more than they have.

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Which is none, but in some cases this has validity. Dawkins for instance regards religious instruction of children as child abuse. He's a curmedgeon. It's not going to happen that folks will accept that.

I mention Mere Christianity and you compare Star Wars to that?

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Actually, Narnia.

The Evolutionists do though. They are ruling society for some unknown reason. As we can see from your math, the majority "claim" they are Christians. Now we see why math is so important. Just like 0 x 0 = the atheist solution to the universe (hey, them not me) it stands to reason that the "majority" and in your math the vast majority of Americans, are not what they claim to be.

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We are unfit to judge whether others are "Christian" or not.

I'd like to see Christian apologists given the same amount of time as the garden variety freethinker ad man.

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Where?

Christians are never an issue where they have no voice. Well yeah, I guess even there they have their tormentors.

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???

MTV has programs where gay sex is literally a choice.

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What, you mean like Let's Make a Deal? A woman chooses Door #1 for a shirtless NYFD Firefighter, Door # 2 for a showgirl, or Door # 3 for a cucumber?

Do you know of any "Christians" that endorse, promote and encourage those under-25ers to engage in the debauchery they do?

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No but most are more realistic about it that the right wing are.

I can only think of two expressions of Christian ideology that do. And neither go by the labels "Conservative or fundamentalist" Christian.

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I should hope not.

Some people do not care if their sex acts are filmed. Can you guess in what culture this happens?

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All of them thanks to Thomas Edison.

And you do realize that those that desired to hold to the Apostolic witness on homosexuality have been ousted from some campuses?

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I have no idea what "apostolic witness on homosexuality" is. If it invokes the false notion homosexuality is a sin then these campuses have certainly acted correctly.

So, no tolerance and diversity? An existence away from the majority view? Away from others(?). That sounds familiar. Yes, that sounds very familiar.

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????

catlover said:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/assault/interviews/franklin.html


When you conducted your studies around the Bay area, did you find the sense that gays made socially acceptable targets?

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I think it is still socially acceptable because much of society still buys the concept of scapegoating. (no telling why ANY Christian would do this, but they DO!)

If they have a Savior in Jesus, why do they strap your their own sins to our backs and try to chase us off the cliff? (so to speak)

I hope it's okay for me to add my 1 cent worth of stuff. I have a co worker who I think is gay. He is a sweetie and I enjoy being his friend. We never talk about our intimate life stuff and that is okay with me. That being said, in my area, we sometimes will have techs come in and fix things and when my friend is in the room, I can see him checking them out.

What my friend doesn't see is that the techs are not nice about it. Most men do not accept other men who are gay and there is this like... I don't know intensity... weird hostility, a biased opinion... discrimination. My friend is a good person with a good heart and I would never tell him what vibes I'm picking up on with the techs, but I do feel for him.

I'm not good with this sort of debate, I just know that no matter what, we are called to love one another. We may not be able to accept one another in some ways, but in Christ, we are called to love one another, pray for one another, forgive one another. When I read this thread, it is filled with, I don't know... anger, hurt....

I don't understand the need to debate one's intimate life style. Sorry.

I'm done in this thread.

I'm done in this thread.

P_f: The purpose of this forum is not to provide merely an echo chamber for American evangelical beliefs.