On whose authority?

[StormyOne]

That phrase or a variation of it has been used several times in recent discussions and I am curious as to why? I mean I envision people sitting around discussing some topic and the police drive up, jump out and ask, "On whose authority are you all having this discussion??"

What am I missing, and why this appeal to "authority" to govern what people choose to believe?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

That phrase or a variation of it has been used several times in recent discussions and I am curious as to why? I mean I envision people sitting around discussing some topic and the police drive up, jump out and ask, "On whose authority are you all having this discussion??"

What am I missing, and why this appeal to "authority" to govern what people choose to believe?

I cannot speak for any poster other than myself.

I have noticed a double standard in this forum. Nearly every time I post a concept taken from Scripture, it is suggested either that I am a fundamentalist, a black-and-white thinker or that I am making some sort of a misguided appeal. Meanwhile, it seems that the same folks who write such things are free to post Biblical concepts at will without any challenge. Whenever you see me asking about "authority," you can be certain that it is because the same person who balks at my discussion of Biblical principles has just cited a Biblical principle in support of his position. When this double standard no longer exists, you will likely see no more use of the word "authority" in my posts.

BFA

 

[Avonia]

I cannot speak for any poster other than myself.

I have noticed a double standard in this forum. Nearly every time I post a concept taken from Scripture, it is suggested either that I am a fundamentalist, a black-and-white thinker or that I am making some sort of a misguided appeal. Meanwhile, it seems that the same folks who write such things are free to post Biblical concepts at will without any challenge. Whenever you see me asking about "authority," you can be certain that it is because the same person who balks at my discussion of Biblical principles has just cited a Biblical principle in support of his position. When this double standard no longer exists, you will likely see no more use of the word "authority" in my posts.

BFA

That's a valid observation.

And I also think there is a difference between using scripture to build out an idea and using scripture to prove a point by throwing down the "authority card" Stormy references.

 

[Avonia]

That phrase or a variation of it has been used several times in recent discussions and I am curious as to why? I mean I envision people sitting around discussing some topic and the police drive up, jump out and ask, "On whose authority are you all having this discussion??"

What am I missing, and why this appeal to "authority" to govern what people choose to believe?

Excellent OP. I suspect it has something to do with wanting to support conclusions rather than entertaining meaningful questions.

 

[StormyOne]

I cannot speak for any poster other than myself.

I have noticed a double standard in this forum. Nearly every time I post a concept taken from Scripture, it is suggested either that I am a fundamentalist, a black-and-white thinker or that I am making some sort of a misguided appeal. Meanwhile, it seems that the same folks who write such things are free to post Biblical concepts at will without any challenge. Whenever you see me asking about "authority," you can be certain that it is because the same person who balks at my discussion of Biblical principles has just cited a Biblical principle in support of his position. When this double standard no longer exists, you will likely see no more use of the word "authority" in my posts.

BFA

fair enough.... while I may choose to submit a text or passage for consideration I usually don't say "now you must believe this way." There will always be double standards..... don't hold your breath while you are waiting for them to disappear....lol

 

[StormyOne]

Excellent OP. I suspect it has something to do with wanting to support conclusions rather than entertaining meaningful questions.

probably.... I was wondering if it is connected somehow to wanting to or proving that the position held is the "right one?"

 

[Byfaithalone1]

That's a valid observation.

And I also think there is a difference between using scripture to build out an idea and using scripture to prove a point by throwing down the "authority card" Stormy references.

I've noticed that this approach is not held in high esteem here. I suppose I didn't initially understand the position taken by some in this forum with respect to the Bible. Although I probably still do not fully understand the positions taken by some on this subject, I have a bit more perspective than I did one month ago.

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

I've noticed that this approach is not held in high esteem here. I suppose I didn't initially understand the position taken by some in this forum with respect to the Bible. Although I probably still do not fully understand the positions taken by some on this subject, I have a bit more perspective than I did one month ago.

BFA

what do you mean? are you saying that when someone states emphatically "the bible says" that some here are not impressed? Yes I am guilty of not being impressed when some string lots of texts together to make a point.... neither do I want to wade through pages of texts and commentary for a person to make a point... but that's just me...

 

[sentipente]

The double standard of which BFA speaks is not a double standard at all. No one has ever suggested that the Bible cannot be cited or quoted. Using it as an authority when what is cited flies in the face of the very nature of the God of the Bible is something else altogether.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

fair enough.... while I may choose to submit a text or passage for consideration I usually don't say "now you must believe this way."

That is my intent as well. Contrary to popular opinion, I truly am not here to tell anyone what to believe. If you knew more about my story, you would understand that I have had to face the folly of my own black-and-white past, and I've had to face the sad fact that I have taught people to believe things that I now believe are not true. I am not here to be dogmatic, or to tell others what they should or should not do. Rather, I am here to explore my own blind spots.

There will always be double standards..... don't hold your breath while you are waiting for them to disappear....lol

I hear you. And I probably have double standards too. I have no doubt that you'll call me on them when they rear their ugly heads.

probably.... I was wondering if it is connected somehow to wanting to or proving that the position held is the "right one?"

That really isn't my objective. I was once a very different flavor of progressive SDA. I've noticed that some of the progressive SDAs who post here have reached different conclusions that I reached and have made different decisions that I've made. I'm simply trying to understand why that is. I'm not here to tell you what to do or what to believe.

what do you mean? are you saying that when someone states emphatically "the bible says" that some here are not impressed? Yes I am guilty of not being impressed when some string lots of texts together to make a point.... neither do I want to wade through pages of texts and commentary for a person to make a point... but that's just me...

Got it! Duly noted.

BFA

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

I think the conversation from BFA demonstrates why he is often referred to as a fundamentalist. Fundamentalists see something from the Bible and assume that it can only be viewed as they view it. That there is only their way of interpretation. When asked to view it differently or that someone else interprets it differently their choice is either acknowledge that there are other ways of seeing things or return to the fundamentalist type of interpretation which is the claim that their belief is the only view and that it is directly from the Bible. That becomes their authority, not the Bible but a particular often narrow interpretation of the Bible.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The double standard of which BFA speaks is not a double standard at all. No one has ever suggested that the Bible cannot be cited or quoted. Using it as an authority when what is cited flies in the face of the very nature of the God of the Bible is something else altogether.

What response can I expect if I make reference to a passage of Scripture? Is it possible that, if I were to make reference to a passage of Scripture, I might hear that:

(1) I cannot think for myself;
(2) I am a black-and-white thinker;
(3) I am a fundamentalist;
(4) I have ventured into stupidland;
(5) I have not defined any of the terms listed; or
(6) I have a misconception of the role of the Scriptures?

BFA

 

[sentipente]

What response can I expect if I make reference to a passage of Scripture? Is it possible that, if I were to make reference to a passage of Scripture, I might hear that:

(1) I cannot think for myself;
(2) I am a black-and-white thinker;
(3) I am a fundamentalist;
(4) I have ventured into stupidland;
(5) I have not defined any of the terms listed; or
(6) I have a misconception of the role of the Scriptures?

BFA

The response you get from me does not come from that list but depends on the context and the passage. If, as I seem to recall you have done, oppose the idea that the Creator will not destroy any of His children by posting a verse from Revelation as being dispositive then you need to be reminded that you have, in doing so, ignored the many other passages in the Bible that say otherwise.

 

[StormyOne]

What response can I expect if I make reference to a passage of Scripture? Is it possible that, if I were to make reference to a passage of Scripture, I might hear that:

(1) I cannot think for myself;
(2) I am a black-and-white thinker;
(3) I am a fundamentalist;
(4) I have ventured into stupidland;
(5) I have not defined any of the terms listed; or
(6) I have a misconception of the role of the Scriptures?

BFA

well BFA all those things might be true, however if its something you believe then you simply believe it I suppose.... embrace your black and white thinking...... embrace your fundamentalist tendencies... and make no apologies... you are what you are yes?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

well BFA all those things might be true, however if its something you believe then you simply believe it I suppose.... embrace your black and white thinking...... embrace your fundamentalist tendencies... and make no apologies... you are what you are yes?

I am what I am, but I am not any of those things. I have answered the question in the OP and now you have the opportunity to glimpse my motivation when I ask questions about "authoritative?"

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I think the conversation from BFA demonstrates why he is often referred to as a fundamentalist. Fundamentalists see something from the Bible and assume that it can only be viewed as they view it.

Which is why I am not a "fundamentalist." I definitely do not assume that a passage of Scripture can only be viewed as I view it. I am well aware of the possibility of differing interpretations. I raise passages of Scripture for the purpose of discussion, not for the purpose of mandating a belief system.

That there is only their way of interpretation.

This is not even remotely my belief. If you'd like to better understand my position, try asking me a question or two and try receiving my answers at face value. This may lead to productive dialogue between us.

When asked to view it differently or that someone else interprets it differently their choice is either acknowledge that there are other ways of seeing things or return to the fundamentalist type of interpretation which is the claim that their belief is the only view and that it is directly from the Bible.

I have already--many times--acknowledged the fact that there are other ways of seeing things. However, you're free to maintain your opinion about me. It won't change the reality.

That becomes their authority, not the Bible but a particular often narrow interpretation of the Bible.

Since this is your view, it may be a good thing that you and I rarely have dialogue in this forum.

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

I am what I am, but I am not any of those things. At least now you'll understand what I mean when I ask questions about "authoritative?" I have answered the question in the OP.

BFA

good deal.... however is it possible that we are perceived a certain way and not realize it? Some people I am told are afraid of me and perceive me as being mean, though they have never really spoken to me, so they are just going by their initial perception....

 

[Byfaithalone1]

good deal.... however is it possible that we are perceived a certain way and not realize it? Some people I am told are afraid of me and perceive me as being mean, though they have never really spoken to me, so they are just going by their initial perception....

Actually, of the progressive SDAs with whom I've had the opportunity to dialogue in this forum, I've found you to be the most fair and the least likely to resort to personal attacks. I would not refer to you as "mean."

However, your point is well taken. I am certain that I have misunderstood a number of things you've written. That's why I keep asking so many questions (and I do genuinely appreciate your patience with my questions).

BFA

 

[sentipente]

If you hold my posts in such high disregard, why do you bother to reply to them? It boggles the mind.

BFA

You make a statement like that and then wonder why people view you as a fundamentalist. This is classic black and white thinking.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

You make a statement like that and then wonder why people view you as a fundamentalist. This is classic black and white thinking.

How so?

Would black-and-white thinking include making snap judgments about people and rigidly holding to such judgments even when the evidence demonstrates that they are inaccurate?

BFA