On T

[pasifika]

Yes, their obedience showed their faith. That was the difference between those who had Faith, and those who did not.

Now it answer your question in post #11.

 

[Bob S]

Thank you for clearing all of this up for me.

Your welcome I think. See below

As a Seventh-Day Adventist of many years, how could I possibly know anything about what the church teaches?

You asked a question, so it would seem like you didn't have any idea the you esteemed prophet, which your church claims is the final interpretation of scripture, wrote. I don't observe the Sabbath and therefore I am lost, period. She wrote it and how can you or anyone else deny that it is one of the teachings of the church.

You should probably join the church and teach since you know so much.

I was a very consciences SDA for forty years. The writings of Ellen White are still part of the 28 fundamental doctrines of the church. I Quote her again. "I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision -- the precious rays of light shining from the throne," is correct. It is true concerning the articles in our papers and in the many volumes of my books. I have been instructed in accordance with the Word in the precepts of the law of God. I have been instructed in selecting from the lessons of Christ. Are not the positions taken in my writings in harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ? If not, point it out to me." {RH, September 6, 1906 par. 1}

Besides copy-and-pasting what someone wrote over 100 years ago, do you have any evidence that what you quoted by Mrs. White is what the church teaches today?

Hello! You are a member and have every access to what the church is teaching. Hint: The hierarchy hasn't had a book burning and they have not come out and made any condemning statements concerning their position on her value to the church that I have heard about. Maybe you should ask President Wilson that question.

 

[Studyman]

The scriptures I posted were intended to demonstrate the level of trust that was required to fulfill much of the Law. As I am sure you know, they did not keep the Laws pertaining to letting the land rest, the release, etc...the exact number of years of the Babylonian captivity, for example, were predicated on the number of sabbath years for the land to rest that was violated.

This has nothing to do with the question I asked, but would make a great study.

I may also humbly add a scripture.

Lev. 25:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath unto the LORD.

Has God brought Abraham and his Children into the land of promise? What about Zacharias?

"And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless"

Did these two live in a land where the land was keeping a Sabbath unto the Lord? A topic for another thread no doubt.

As to Yeshua condemning the scribes and Pharisees, there are many, which he quotes Isaiah extensively to rebuke them "honor with your lips, but your heart is far from me", "the stone the builders rejected, and others... man, you are asking a lot here.
Pauls works of the law included "traditions of the elders", as did Yeshua. We have already discussed how
temple sacrifices were ineffective, as also discussed in Hebrews.

David's Psalms bring much to light. Consider this:
"the sacrifices of God are a broken and contrite heart"...
someone could bring an animal to offer as a sacrifice in accordance with Levitical Law without any
remorse, just actions dictated by the requirements of Law. He might even resent having to give up a
healthy animal from his flock or herd. You know Hebrews goes into great detail about this, and is
consistent with Paul's teachings.

I agree. The Sacrifices required for atonement were intended to promote true repentance. Placing God before something of great value.

Duet. 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. 6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

As Paul teaches.

Rom. 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

The Laws that they relied on to consider themselves righteous are mentioned, observances of Sabbath and feast day, tithing, participation in synagogue...i.e. what we would call religion, rather than the weightier matters, in particular mercy, such as in the Good Samaritan parable.

Here is the part of your reply which I can not agree with. There is nowhere in the Bible that says if you have sin or unrighteousness, keep the Sabbath, and you will become righteous.. But there is a LAW that says if you want to have your sins, or unrighteousness forgiven, take a sin offing to the Levite Priest and he will perform sacrificial "works of the Law" and you will again become righteous, by law.

Jesus kept God's Sabbaths that HE said was made for man. But HE also forgave sins without having sprinkled one drop of Blood on the alter, nor did HE burn the fat. Jesus was made righteous, not by the Levitical Priesthood, but because HE became obedient unto death, and walked in the Laws, Commandments, and statutes of God from HIS childhood. Those men HE forgave, were not made righteous by the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for atonement. By God's design this Priesthood had already been replaced by a New and Better ministry. But the Jews didn't believe this. They were still seeking righteousness by these "works of the Law" of a Priesthood which became irrelevant the day John the Baptist, baptized Jesus..

The Jews had corrupted and polluted God's Sabbaths and Feast's for Centuries. Because the Shepherds God placed over them had "corrupted the Covenant" HE made with Levi and led them astray, as it is written. Zacharias didn't, Simeon didn't, Anna didn't, the Apostles in Acts didn't. But the Pharisees and Levites did. Paul knew this better that anyone.

I strongly disagree that the "works of the law" the Jews were seeking to be justified or made righteous by, were the Christ's Feasts, or the 10 commandments, or any of the Laws, Commandments, Statutes of God given to Israel.

The Pharisees had power, not because of the 10 Commandments, or the Sabbaths of God. Their power came through their perversion of the Covenant God made with Levi. They had "exclusive" ownership of the Book of the Law", no one but a Levite could even touch it. They had exclusive power over atonement, by Law. Only those who they allowed could bring a sin offering, only they were allowed to perform the sacrificial "works of the Law" to cover men's unrighteousness.

When Jesus, the Prophesied Messiah, came on the scene, He threatened their whole power base. All their free money, all their fame and prestige. If Jesus were the true Messiah, then they would have been required, as John the Baptist did, to humble themselves to Him and hand HIM the Priesthood.

Without this Priesthood Law ADDED 430 years after Abraham obeyed, they were nothing special. With it, they were the "righteous" priests of God.

But Gentiles who "repented, turned to God, and did works meet for repentance" were considered righteous "apart" from the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" of atonement. They did not seek out forgiveness or righteousness by these "works of the law" of atonement. Rather, they simply obeyed from the heart, that doctrine Jesus gave to His Disciples.

They believed Peter when Peter told them to stop eating Blood, and a few other commandments of God they were breaking. They believed the Word's of Moses read every Sabbath in the Synagogues.. Including the temporary Priesthood God put in place "Till the Seed should come". An obsolete Priesthood Law the Jews were still promoting and still bewitching them with.

It seems essential to identify the Covenant of Abraham that God furthered on to Israel, the Covenant you posted. But to not acknowledge this Covenant of Atonement God made with Levi on Israel's behalf, which is the only reason Israel was not wiped out on Mt. Sinai, can only cause a perversion of Paul's taching.

Romans 9:
30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have
attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith;
31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law.
For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.
33 As it is written:
Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.

The Passover Lamb of God.

 

[Mr. M]

I do not intend to speak out of place, or data bomb your thread. But I do have a question I would humbly ask you regarding the Scriptures you posted.

The scriptures I posted were intended to demonstrate the level of trust that was required to fulfill much of the Law.

Minor correction here.

 

[Mr. M]

Here is the part of your reply which I can not agree with. There is nowhere in the Bible that says if you have sin or unrighteousness, keep the Sabbath, and you will become righteous.

I did not say this, or suggest that the Bible says either. Your question was what did they think made
them righteous. I am sure there was many things, more than what I mentioned. I don't have much
disagreement with you at all, if you don't question what Paul taught us. There are some who reject Paul completely, or try to misrepresent his doctrines for their own agenda. I like where you left it:
The Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world to take away sin.
Let's maintain a like-minded Faith in what He alone has done and can do.

 

[BiffBuffering]

Your welcome I think. See below


You asked a question, so it would seem like you didn't have any idea the you esteemed prophet, which your church claims is the final interpretation of scripture, wrote. I don't observe the Sabbath and therefore I am lost, period. She wrote it and how can you or anyone else deny that it is one of the teachings of the church.


I was a very consciences SDA for forty years. The writings of Ellen White are still part of the 28 fundamental doctrines of the church. I Quote her again. "I do not write one article in the paper, expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision -- the precious rays of light shining from the throne," is correct. It is true concerning the articles in our papers and in the many volumes of my books. I have been instructed in accordance with the Word in the precepts of the law of God. I have been instructed in selecting from the lessons of Christ. Are not the positions taken in my writings in harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ? If not, point it out to me." {RH, September 6, 1906 par. 1}


Hello! You are a member and have every access to what the church is teaching. Hint: The hierarchy hasn't had a book burning and they have not come out and made any condemning statements concerning their position on her value to the church that I have heard about. Maybe you should ask President Wilson that question.

An argument from silence? That's a form of logical fallacy. Your buffoonish ravings are slightly entertaining. You're the one who's obsessed with Ellen White. I don't have a problem with her. I'm just moving on with my life. I don't have time to park in Sabbath/Law threads and spew hate and then report people when they call me out. Good luck with your ax-grinding.