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On The Perseverance of the Saints

Kokavkrystallos

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I must say that I have experienced much of what is written here, from the Canons of Dort in 1618-1619. I do believe in pressing toward the goal of perfection as stated in Article 2, but also that the sin nature and infirmities of the flesh are still with us as expressed in Article 1.
Article 4 contains some rather frightening revelations: "they are not only liable to be drawn into great and heinous sins by the flesh, the world, and Satan, but sometimes by the righteous permission of God actually are drawn into these evils. This, the lamentable fall of David, Peter, and other saints described in Holy Scripture, demonstrates." I know all this quite well, and can add to that the sins of Samson, and Solomon as well.

Now there must come a time the person is either brought back to repentance by a literal act of God upon his or her life, sometimes in drastic and dramatic ways, or the person continues on in their sin to the point of apostasy, departing completely from the faith of which they were exposed to, but yet not born again by.
Yes, I believe you be exposed to the faith, taste the good things of God, even reap of His blessings, but be lost. case in point: Judas, and those described in Matthew 7:20-23.

In my case I have no idea if God was involved in granting righteous permission, but I do know He will give someone over to their sins. Could He have stopped me from some of these sins? Of course. Why didn't He? Perhaps to show me the true gravity of sin. Perhaps to show other people other things I have no idea about. And to show that no matter the powers I claimed for myself, as I described in a testimony yesterday, all personal power and ability is as nothing in His sight, and we are truly weak without Him, and our giving Him our 100%

I've also experienced Article 11, having doubts concerning this assurance, and feeling assured of hell. But I suspect if did not have such doubt at the time, that perhaps the seed of the Word was not within, for if I did not fear Him who can cast into hell, there would be no fear of God, and such as who do not fear God are usually lost. Also in my prodigalness I did not really "run from the Father" but would call Him out and demand Jacob like wrestling matches, or to destroy Satan in a duel for God, and all form of madness and folly. Yet at the core I obviously clung tightly to an ultimate trust in God.
1 John 3:20, "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things." Absolutely! HalleluYAH!

So now I find for the past few years what is explained in Articles 12, 13 and 14 - an incentive to godliness, is no inducement to carelessness, and that God keeps me by His Word, fellowship, breaking of bread, and prayers.

I suppose I will only know the real reasons and purpose of my many follies when I am set free from this flesh and am glorified. There is no way I can know all of the Fathers sovereign will and what He purposes in my life, or how my life may have effected others for both good and for evil, and considering Romans 8:28 I have seen what begins as an evil gets turned around for good, as was with Joseph in Egypt.


The Fifth Main Point of Doctrine:
The Perseverance of the Saints

Article 1: The Regenerate Not Entirely Free from Sin

Those whom God, according to His purpose, calls to the communion of His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, and regenerates by the Holy Spirit, He also delivers from the dominion and slavery of sin, though in this life He does not deliver them altogether from the body of sin and from the infirmities of the flesh.

Article 2: The Believer’s Reaction to Sins of Weakness

Hence spring forth the daily sins of infirmity, and blemishes cleave even to the best works of the saints. These are to them a perpetual reason to humiliate themselves before God and to flee for refuge to Christ crucified; to mortify the flesh more and more by the spirit of prayer and by holy exercises of piety; and to press forward to the goal of perfection, until at length, delivered from this body of death, they shall reign with the Lamb of God in heaven.

Article 3: God’s Preservation of the Converted

By reason of these remains of indwelling sin, and also because of the temptations of the world and of Satan, those who are converted could not persevere in that grace if left to their own strength. But God is faithful, who, having conferred grace, mercifully confirms and powerfully preserves them therein, even to the end.

Article 4: The Danger of True Believers’ Falling into Serious Sins

Although the weakness of the flesh cannot prevail against the power of God, who confirms and preserves true believers in a state of grace, yet converts are not always so influenced and actuated by the Spirit of God as not in some particular instances sinfully to deviate from the guidance of divine grace, so as to be seduced by and to comply with the lusts of the flesh; they must, therefore, be constant in watching and prayer, that they may not be led into temptation. When these are neglected, they are not only liable to be drawn into great and heinous sins by the flesh, the world, and Satan, but sometimes by the righteous permission of God actually are drawn into these evils. This, the lamentable fall of David, Peter, and other saints described in Holy Scripture, demonstrates.

Article 5: The Effects of Such Serious Sins

By such enormous sins, however, they very highly offend God, incur a deadly guilt, grieve the Holy Spirit, interrupt the exercise of faith, very grievously wound their consciences, and sometimes for a while lose the sense of God’s favor, until, when they change their course by serious repentance, the light of God’s fatherly countenance again shines upon them.

Article 6: God’s Saving Intervention

But God, who is rich in mercy, according to His unchangeable purpose of election, does not wholly withdraw the Holy Spirit from His own people even in their grievous falls; nor suffers them to proceed so far as to lose the grace of adoption and forfeit the state of justification, or to commit the sin unto death or against the Holy Spirit; nor does He permit them to be totally deserted, and to plunge themselves into everlasting destruction.

Article 7: Renewal to Repentance

For in the first place, in these falls He preserves in them the incorruptible seed of regeneration from perishing or being totally lost; and again, by His Word and Spirit He certainly and effectually renews them to repentance, to a sincere and godly sorrow for their sins, that they may seek and obtain remission in the blood of the Mediator, may again experience the favor of a reconciled God, through faith adore His mercies, and henceforward more diligently work out their own salvation with fear and trembling.

Article 8: The Certainty of This Preservation

Thus it is not in consequence of their own merits or strength, but of God’s free mercy, that they neither totally fall from faith and grace nor continue and perish finally in their backslidings; which, with respect to themselves is not only possible, but would undoubtedly happen; but with respect to God, it is utterly impossible, since His counsel cannot be changed nor His promise fail; neither can the call according to His purpose be revoked, nor the merit, intercession, and preservation of Christ be rendered ineffectual, nor the sealing of the Holy Spirit be frustrated or obliterated.

Article 9: The Assurance of This Preservation

Of this preservation of the elect to salvation and of their perseverance in the faith, true believers themselves may and do obtain assurance according to the measure of their faith, whereby they surely believe that they are and ever will continue true and living members of the Church, and that they have the forgiveness of sins and life eternal.

Article 10: The Ground of This Assurance

This assurance, however, is not produced by any peculiar revelation contrary to or independent of the Word of God, but springs from faith in God’s promises, which He has most abundantly revealed in His Word for our comfort; from the testimony of the Holy Spirit, witnessing with our spirit that we are children and heirs of God (Rom 8:16); and lastly, from a serious and holy desire to preserve a good conscience and to perform good works. And if the elect of God were deprived of this solid comfort that they shall finally obtain the victory, and of this infallible pledge of eternal glory, they would be of all men the most miserable.

Article 11: Doubts Concerning This Assurance

The Scripture moreover testifies that believers in this life have to struggle with various carnal doubts, and that under grievous temptations they do not always feel this full assurance of faith and certainty of persevering. But God, who is the Father of all consolation, does not suffer them to be tempted above that they are able, but will with the temptation make also the way of escape, that they may be able to endure it (1Co 10:13), and by the Holy Spirit again inspires them with the comfortable assurance of persevering.

Article 12: This Assurance as an Incentive to Godliness

This certainty of perseverance, however, is so far from exciting in believers a spirit of pride, or of rendering them carnally secure, that on the contrary it is the real source of humility, filial reverence, true piety, patience in every tribulation, fervent prayers, constancy in suffering and in confessing the truth, and of solid rejoicing in God; so that the consideration of this benefit should serve as an incentive to the serious and constant practice of gratitude and good works, as appears from the testimonies of Scripture and the examples of the saints.

Article 13: Assurance No Inducement to Carelessness

Neither does renewed confidence of persevering produce licentiousness or a disregard of piety in those who are recovered from backsliding; but it renders them much more careful and solicitous to continue in the ways of the Lord, which He has ordained, that they who walk therein may keep the assurance of persevering; lest, on account of their abuse of His fatherly kindness, God should turn away His gracious countenance from them (to behold which is to the godly dearer than life, and the withdrawal of which is more bitter than death) and they in consequence thereof should fall into more grievous torments of conscience.

Article 14: God’s Use of Means in Perseverance

And as it has pleased God, by the preaching of the gospel, to begin this work of grace in us, so He preserves, continues, and perfects it by the hearing and reading of His Word, by meditation thereon, and by the exhortations, threatenings, and promises thereof, and by the use of the sacraments.

Article 15: Contrasting Reactions to the Teaching of Perseverance

The carnal mind is unable to comprehend this doctrine of the perseverance of the saints and the certainty thereof, which God has most abundantly revealed in His Word, for the glory of His Name and the consolation of pious souls, and which He impresses upon the hearts of the believers. Satan abhors it, the world ridicules it, the ignorant and hypocritical abuse it, and the heretics oppose it. But the bride of Christ has always most tenderly loved and constantly defended it as an inestimable treasure; and God, against whom neither counsel nor strength can prevail, will dispose her so to continue to the end. Now to this one God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, be honor and glory forever. Amen.
 

BBAS 64

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Good day,

Just to add:

Augustine (354-430): Of such says the apostle, “We know that to those that love God He worketh together all things for good, to them who are called according to His purpose; because those whom He before foreknew, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren. Moreover, whom He did predestinate, them He also called; and whom He called, them He also justified; and whom He justified, them He also glorified.” Of these no one perishes, because all are elected. And they are elected because they were called according to the purpose — the purpose, however, not their own, but God’s; of which He elsewhere says, “That the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth, it was said unto her that the elder shall serve the younger.” And in another place he says, “Not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace.” When, therefore, we hear,” Moreover, whom He did predestinate, them He also called,” we ought to acknowledge that they were called according to His purpose; since He thence began, saying, “He worketh together all things for good to those who are called according to His purpose,” and then added, “Because those whom He before foreknew, He also did predestinate, to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren And to these promises He added, “Moreover, whom, He did predestinate, them He also called.” He wishes these, therefore, to be understood whom He called according to His purpose, lest any among them should be thought to be called and not elected, on account of that sentence of the Lord’s: “Many the called but few are elected.” For whoever are elected are without doubt also called; but not whosoever are called are as a consequence elected. Those, then, are elected, as has often been said, who are called according to the purpose, who also are predestinated and foreknown. If any one of these perishes, God is mistaken; but none of them perishes, because God is not mistaken. If any one of these perish, God is overcome by human sin; but none of them perishes, because God is overcome by nothing. Moreover, they are elected to reign with Christ, not as Judas was elected, to a work for which he was fitted. Because he was chosen by Him who well knew how to make use even of wicked men, so that even by his damnable deed that venerable work, for the sake of which He Himself had come, might be accomplished. When, therefore, we hear, “Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?” we ought to understand that the rest were elected by mercy, but he by judgment; those to obtain His kingdom, he to shed His blood! NPNF1: Vol. V, A Treatise on Rebuke and Grace, Chapter 14, None of the Elect and Predestinated Can Perish.


Also just finished up Calvin's work on Hosea there was something at the end I need to back and revisit about assurance I will post it when I find it.

IN Him,

Bill
 
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fhansen

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Calvin couldn’t even know with 100% certainty whether or not he was numbered among the elect; no one can save God alone. The single best indicator is in how well we love God and neighbor, and express that love. Without that fruit just a self-assessed level of our faith would be worthless: faith, alone, can’t save. Another quote from Augustine:
Without love faith may indeed exist, but avails nothing.”
 
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BBAS 64

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Good day, fhasen

I do love when Augustine sounds like Luther and Calvin... Do you have the source of this little snippet you shared?

*edit* to add found it "The Enchiridion on Faith, Hope and Love"

Chapter 8. The Distinction Between Faith and Hope, and the Mutual Dependence of Faith, Hope, and Love.​



In Him

Bill
 
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BBAS 64

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Found it:

Hosea 14:9

9. Who is wise, and he shall understand these things? prudent, and he shall know them? for the ways of the Lord are right, and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein

He then adds, And the just shall walk in them, but in them shall the ungodly stumble By saying that the just shall walk in them, he confirms the last sentence by experience, for the just really find the ways of the Lord to be right We ought also to be furnished with this assurance, if we would boldly repel all the impious calumnies, which are usually heaped together by profane men against the word of God: for if we know not what it is to walk in the ways of the Lord, we shall surely, as soon as any thing is alleged against them, be suspended in doubt, or be wholly upset; for we see that many, not deeply rooted in the word of God, instantly quail, as soon as any thing is said against it, because they know not what it is to walk in the ways of the Lord; but they who walk in the Lord’s ways courageously fight against all the temptations of the world; they carry on the context that they may attain celestial life; they feel assured that though now miserable for a time, they shall yet be blessed, for they have embraced the grace of God in Christ; they are sustained too by their own conscience, so that they can look down on all the reproaches and slanders of the world, and proceed onward in their course. They then who thus walk in the ways of the Lord are unconquerable; yea, were the whole world to oppose them, and were the ungodly with their profane words to infect the whole atmosphere, the godly would still pursue their course until they reached the end. All the ways of Jehovah are therefore right, the just shall walk in them; but in them shall the ungodly stumble, or fall; for , cashel, means both, but I prefer rendering it “stumble,” as it seems more suitable to the design of the Prophet. The just then find a plain and an even way in the word of the Lord, and nothing stands in their path to obstruct their course, and by daily advances they attain that to which the Lord calls them, even their celestial inheritance. The just shall thus walk in the Lord’s ways, because the Lord will lead them, as it were, by his hand; faith will be to them for hundred eyes, and also for wings: and hope, at the same time, sustains them; for they are armed with promises and encouragements; they have also stimulants, whenever the Lord earnestly exhorts them; they have, besides, in his threatenings, such terrors as keep them awake. Thus then the faithful find in the word of the Lord the best ways, and they follow them. But what of the ungodly? They imagine all doubts, even the least, to be mountains: for as soon as they meet with any thing intricate or obscure, they are confounded, and says “I would gladly seek to know the Holy Scriptures but I meet with so many difficulties.” Hence when a doubt is suggested, they regard it as a mountain; 319 Comm on Hosea John Calvin nay, they purposely pretend doubts, that they may have some excuse, when they wish to evade the truth, and turn aside that they may not follow the Lord. The ungodly, then, stumble in the ways of Jehovah. But this ought to be read adversatively, “Though the ungodly stumble, yet the just shall always walk in the ways of Jehovah;” which means, that there is no reason why the ungodly should stop or retard us by their continual stumbling, and by exclaiming that the word of God is full of what gives offence; for we shall find in it an even way, only let us ascribe to God this glory, that he is just, and that his ways are right. This is the meaning of the sentence. END OF THE PROPHECIES OF HOSEA
 
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fhansen

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Yes, Augustine can sound like the Reformers at times (which I don't love ), but not always, and at the end of the day he's not quite as radical when it comes to the human will-and he sounds quite unlike them in other areas such as, perhaps, his emphasis on the absolute centrality of love in Christianity. In his battle against Pelagianism, similar to Paul's battle against legalism, Augustine explored and affirmed the absolute necessity of grace in order for man to be able to come to God-and the Church accepted and sanctioned those teachings for the most part. But not everything. For example, the Catholic Church has always strictly rejected double-predestination, which Augustine believed or taught- at some point in his life in any case. Anyway, from "On the Trinity", written around 400 AD. Sorry for the formatting- couldn't get it to change. Book 15, chap 18, para 32:


32. There is no gift of God more excellent than this. It alone distinguishes the sons of the eternal kingdom and the sons of eternal perdition. Other gifts, too, are given by the Holy Spirit; but without love they profit nothing. Unless, therefore, the Holy Spirit is so far imparted to each, as to make him one who loves God and his neighbor, he is not removed from the left hand to the right. Nor is the Spirit specially called the Gift, unless on account of love. And he who has not this love, though he speak with the tongues of men and angels, is sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal; and though he have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and though he have all faith, so that he can remove mountains, he is nothing; and though he bestow all his goods to feed the poor, and though he give his body to be burned, it profits him nothing. How great a good, then, is that without which goods so great bring no one to eternal life! But love or charity itself — for they are two names for one thing — if he have it that does not speak with tongues, nor has the gift of prophecy, nor knows all mysteries and all knowledge, nor gives all his goods to the poor, either because he has none to give or because some necessity hinders, nor delivers his body to be burned, if no trial of such a suffering overtakes him, brings that man to the kingdom, so that faith itself is only rendered profitable by love, since faith without love can indeed exist, but cannot profit. And therefore also the Apostle Paul says, In Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision, but faith that works by love: so distinguishing it from that faith by which even the devils believe and tremble. Love, therefore, which is of God and is God, is specially the Holy Spirit, by whom the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts, by which love the whole Trinity dwells in us. And therefore most rightly is the Holy Spirit, although He is God, called also the gift of God. And by that gift what else can properly be understood except love, which brings to God, and without which any other gift of God whatsoever does not bring to God?

 
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WarriorAngel

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Rather, St Augustine was misquoted by reformers.

As St Peter warned not to wrest the scriptures nor the epistles of Paul for ourselves, so too is any father f the Church after....
Because they stay in the bounds, but like cherry picking or personal exegesis, things can be changed in wresting.

I will give a quote so mistaken to reformers... when he refers to the fact we were predestined.
Rather he is referring to Christianity as the fulfillment of the Old Testament.
Not as the presupposed 'predestination' against free will and no matter what the Lord already destined sinners to hell and some to Heaven.

That is a real stretch to say the Lord did not love all and hoped for damnation.

He gave us one desire and destination - to be with Him.
He does not enjoy loss, He even said to Isreal like a mother hen He wanted to put them under His wing.

This is true for all, but He doesn't deny us our free will.
The opposers would like for us to be lost and can confuse humanity with disregard to the Lord's truest desire.
 
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