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On the Christian Perception of Our Shared Reality

Stephen3141

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Whether or not someone BELIEVES what they are saying, does NOT determine
if what they are saying is true.

There are objective standards for testing whether an assertion is true, or not.

For Christians, the Bible presents LYING as misrepresenting our shared reality.
Some Christians really misunderstand this definition of lying, and think that
asserting whatever one "believes", is not lying. Continuing to assert whatever
a person believes, bypasses a Christian's responsibility to seek out truth,
and carefully test whether opinions/beliefs are true.

Donald Trump has a few problems.

-- He has changed his positions on a number of subjects, in ways that
are inconsistent with each other.
-- He has asserted that there was massive fraud in the 2020 election, when
the evidence supports that this was a clean election. Donald has filed about
2 dozen lawsuits about this, and they have all been thrown out, for not having
any substantial or relative evidence to support them.
-- Donald has played around with the Qanon and Alex Jones and Tucker
Carlson conspiracy theories, which are systems of unproven opinions.
They are systems of "explanations", but as high school students should
have learned in a good course on Logic, explanations are not proofs.
A lot more effort is required to demonstrate that some opinion/belief is
TRUE, than to just spin out unproven "explanations". Donald's standard
explanation, when he can't think of anything logical, is that the "Deep
State" is defeating him.

Some of these conspiracy theories have been held by historic groups
such as radical Muslim jihadists, and radical Nazi white supremecists.
-- Donald is quick to slander people who disagree with him. He doesn't bother
to try to demonstrate why differing opinions are false.
-- Donald is quick to condemn the entire American legal system for being a
shallow tool of political parties. But in this, he completely ignores the evidence
that is being brought against him. The American legal system has strict rules
about what can be introduced as evidence in court cases. And Donald's
emotional claims, do not constitute logical reasons why this evidence should not
be used in court.

Basically, Donald does not meet any of the strict conditions and tests, that
orthodox Christians would accept, when they try to determine whether an
opinion/belief is TRUE.

-- Beyond this, Donald has repeatedly asserted threats against judges, their families,
and people who disagree with him. Donald does not seem able to create logical
arguments against their positions. He simply threatens, or mocks them.

-- Although Donald's supporters don't want to admit it, historians who study the U.S.
presidents are coming to the agreement that Donald Trump was one of the worst
presidents in American history. The historians ignore the rhetoric of the presidents,
and look at their beliefs, values, and accomplishments. Donald does not represent
the democratic values of America, or the fair rule of law, or the self-control and
discipline and eduction that a good president should have.
---------- ----------

I'm not sure whether or not Donald believes what he is saying.
But the Christian definition of lying, is bearing false witness about our
shared reality. And Donald Trump regularly says things that are completely
out of step with evidence from our shared reality.

Donald Trump habitually misrepresents our shared reality.
---------- ----------

What the "mainstream" media say, is an independent topic.
But if you judge the accuracy of the mainstream media, by assertions from
Tucker Carlson and Fox News, then you are using a very biased foundation
from which to evaluate other media.

Donald Trump habitually misrepresents our shared reality.
 
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o_mlly

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For Christians, the Bible presents LYING as misrepresenting our shared reality.
Some Christians really misunderstand this definition of lying, and think that
asserting whatever one "believes", is not lying.
The statement, "Asserting whatever one believes is not lying" is a true statement.

Lying consists in putting into words the very opposite of what one really thinks—the opposite of one's own state of mind.
The lie must, of course, be intentional and with a deliberate purpose to deceive for the sake of gaining some advantage, regardless of the injury that may result to the person who is deceived.

As your basic premise fails to be correct, I dismiss the rest of your post as merely your rambling negative opinions about the character of Donald Trump.

As you claim to be Catholic, I refer you to our Catechism # 2477-2479.
 
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perplexed

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Do I believe that Trump believes every word he's saying? Yes... But if my mother-in-law or friend or neighbor comes to me telling me the same I would correct them and if Trump said the same I'd disagree to his face ..

?? Trump said Dominion switched Millions of votes, Did he believe this even though his advisors told him there was no evidence of this and Sydney Powells evidence was from a crazy person that talked to ghosts.
 
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FireDragon76

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Don't play games. Trump implied most people crossing the border are murderers and rapists. Women crossing the border being vulnerable to rape doesn't prove Trump's remarks are correct, since it doesn't prove that migrants themselves are rapists. In anything, it contradicts his propaganda that the migrants are predators. They are generally victims.
 
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o_mlly

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Trump plainly said ...

Trump implied ...
Back down a bit more.

It would be more honest to post, "I infer ..." rather than "Trump implied ... ". Only the speaker implies; the listener may only infer.

I used to just chuckle at the "TDS" label assigned to those who irrationally criticize Trump. I'm beginning to think that TDS should be listed in the revised DSM-6 as a true mental disorder.
 
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Stephen3141

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I take a much stronger definition of "lying", than speaking what one believes.

Lying is bearing false witness against our shared reality.
Lying can include speaking about something, on which we are ignorant.
Lying can be speaking our opinion, without testing our opinion, to see if
it matches our shared reality.
Lying can be keeping our opinion, even when we have evidence from our shared reality,
that SHOULD HAVE triggered us to revise our belief system.

This is a much more edgy concept of "lying", that is not based on our relative
belief system.

I would argue that the biblical concept of lying, is intimately tied to our
individual moral-ethical responsibility to be in touch with our shared reality.
And this includes a ME ought to learn and test ideas and beliefs.

What God does with individuals who are truly ignorant, and speak out of
ignorance, I leave to God.
 
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