On Manipulation

KitKatMatt · Oct 10, 2015

I am sorry, but I cannot see that downside to informing people on how to recognize manipulation.

Being unable to recognize manipulation and getting stuck in a manipulative or abusive relationship as opposed to one person being offended over something one time? I see one of those things as being a LOT more dangerous than the other.

Yes, healthy relationships must also be talked about just as much, but people NEED to learn what red flags to look for and exactly what they mean, how to avoid them, and what to do/where to go to get help if they end up in a relationship with someone who is manipulative or abusive.

Jack of Spades · Oct 10, 2015

KitKatMatt said:
I am sorry, but I cannot see that downside to informing people on how to recognize manipulation.

This is classic case of "too much/too little", downside of becoming paranoid is unability to trust anyone, cause everyone appears to be manipulative -> thus rejecting healthy relationships too. My example was not meant to illustrate the possible consequences, but rather I wanted to demonstrate that it can happen otherway around too: by seeing manipulative stuff where it actually isn't.

KitKatMatt · Oct 10, 2015

That goes way too far, I don't see this happening.

I am already paranoid about getting close to men, and it wasn't because someone taught me to recognize signs of manipulation or abuse. It's because I had NO IDEA what those signs were, and I ended up in relationships with manipulative men until I got hurt and learned to just avoid most men by default.

Tom Mix · Oct 10, 2015

Abuse is a very bad thing and should not be thrown around as a new click word.

Claiming abuse does not mean you were abused.

There was once a guy who had a stalker following him and the guy was scared but the stalker was still following him so the guy turned around and shot and killed the stalker.

Was the guy right for shooting the stalker? No he was not. Being scared does not mean he was in danger.

The way you feel about something does not mean the word you are using to call it is correct.

It is good to show others what abuse is so they can get help but please make sure it is abuse and not just a bod decision you mad and later felt bad about it.

KitKatMatt · Oct 10, 2015

Tom Mix said:
There was once a guy who had a stalker following him and the guy was scared but the stalker was still following him so the guy turned around and shot and killed the stalker.

This is an extremely vague story, just to let you know.

Swan7 · Oct 10, 2015

Gentle Lamb said:
Have any ladies had experiences where you meet a guy and think he might actually be nice and he says nice things and then later on you find out he was just saying fancy words in order to manipulate you and play with your mind (and hopefully later on your body to fulfill his own carnal urges)? I've had this happen more times than I can count, it's like they are vicious predators.

**Disclaimer - I know there are good guys out there and I'm not saying all guys are like this, I am only asking women who have had similar experiences... and any guys who know I'm not targeting them and want to chime in.

My whole life right there. I still haven't found one Christian guy who actually walks with God in my area, and if/when I wasn't able to be courted by them, they wanted nothing to do with me...
So, I only went for the unbelievers. That still got me nowhere because they only wanted the carnal things. I'm not looking anymore and I'm leaving that with God.

redblue22 · Oct 10, 2015

I still don't get it. Words like "Manipulative" and "Abuse" are pretty vague. What exactly did these people do that was so terrible?

Gentle Lamb · Oct 10, 2015

redblue22 said:
I still don't get it. Words like "Manipulative" and "Abuse" are pretty vague. What exactly did these people do that was so terrible?

Seriously? Did you read the OP or any of the other stories? How do you still not understand what people are getting at after all the illustrations we've given here, about both men & women? Is it not manipulation when a person takes their words and uses them solely to get the response they want from someone else, not caring about their feelings?? Is it not abusive when this is done intentionally (or unintentionally at times, as sometimes abusers do not realize they are abusive) over and over again to a person they are supposed to love and care for? Where in the Bible do you see Jesus using His words and actions to produce these negative effects on people? Were His words not like a sword of truth that would cut through the lies in order to galvanize the people to live lives worthy of their Father God? Are we not to continue to follow in His will and in His way? How then can you read these stories and not understand that when we fail to treat each other as Jesus Christ intended, when we use our words and actions to hurt other people whom we are to love, that this amounts to abuse and manipulation?

Sketcher · Oct 10, 2015

For the sake of my own curiosity/clarity, where do you draw the line as to the negative manipulation you are describing? I'm an introvert, if I start a conversation, it is intentional. I want to sway people's impressions and opinions in a way that favors me or someone/something I care about, but I don't want to cheat them out of money or use them in a short-term fling. How do you separate good or neutral intentions from negative manipulation? And how can someone like me be intentional with someone else without being misread as "manipulative"?

Jack of Spades · Oct 10, 2015

KitKatMatt said:
That goes way too far, I don't see this happening.

I've seen it happen in another context. The topic was actually spiritual abuse but I believe it's somewhat comparable. First it's of course very good thing that people are being informed about it, but it has habit of going overboard and pretty much everything that is related to practising religion is labeled spiritual abuse.

For the note, I'm not saying that information about manipulation and abuse should not be shared and taught. It should. What I'm trying to say is that, it's also important to note that when we talk about informing and warning people about anything, there is a real risk of going overboard and causing unpleasant byproducts. It's in human nature to overreact and there are alot of historical large scale examples about it aswell, like witch hunts or McCarthyism.

KitKatMatt said:
I am already paranoid about getting close to men, and it wasn't because someone taught me to recognize signs of manipulation or abuse. It's because I had NO IDEA what those signs were, and I ended up in relationships with manipulative men until I got hurt and learned to just avoid most men by default.

I'm sorry for what you've been through, and I actually mean it.

Gentle Lamb · Oct 10, 2015

Swan7 said:
My whole life right there. I still haven't found one Christian guy who actually walks with God in my area, and if/when I wasn't able to be courted by them, they wanted nothing to do with me...
So, I only went for the unbelievers. That still got me nowhere because they only wanted the carnal things. I'm not looking anymore and I'm leaving that with God.

It's an absolute shame the way things are going, but again, this points to how far away we have fallen away from the way that God has intended for us to live our lives. It's 1,000,000 times better for a person (male or female) to remain single than to enter into a relationship in which they are unequally yoked and one person ends up compromising the faith and morals of another. In any case, nothing is impossible with God and He can literally have you bump heads with your future spouse when He sees you are both ready and I have heard of cases where He has told one person Hey, this other person is to be your spouse. So with Him there is always hope. Let's have Him be our main man and take care of all of our needs, single or not.It doesn't get any more rewarding than chasing after the Lord God Himself who will never deceive or lie to or manipulate or abuse us. And when we do have these bad things happen in our lives, He's the one we can turn to to have those wounds heal. Doesn't get much better than that

redblue22 · Oct 10, 2015

Gentle Lamb said:
Seriously? Did you read the OP or any of the other stories? How do you still not understand what people are getting at after all the illustrations we've given here, about both men & women? Is it not manipulation when a person takes their words and uses them solely to get the response they want from someone else, not caring about their feelings?? Is it not abusive when this is done intentionally (or unintentionally at times, as sometimes abusers do not realize they are abusive) over and over again to a person they are supposed to love and care for? Where in the Bible do you see Jesus using His words and actions to produce these negative effects on people? Were His words not like a sword of truth that would cut through the lies in order to galvanize the people to live lives worthy of their Father God? Are we not to continue to follow in His will and in His way? How then can you read these stories and not understand that when we fail to treat each other as Jesus Christ intended, when we use our words and actions to hurt other people whom we are to love, that this amounts to abuse and manipulation?

That's not very nice.

Swan7 · Oct 10, 2015

KitKatMatt said:
That goes way too far, I don't see this happening.

I am already paranoid about getting close to men, and it wasn't because someone taught me to recognize signs of manipulation or abuse. It's because I had NO IDEA what those signs were, and I ended up in relationships with manipulative men until I got hurt and learned to just avoid most men by default.

I can relate. Schools, when I was growing up, didn't teach those kinds of things. Only sex education. It actually wasn't until recently in the past few months where I really noticed it from a friend I had made, whom wasn't so friendly at all. Now I know and will keep that in mind for anyone I come across.

redblue22 · Oct 10, 2015

If you are going to call yourself "Gentle" and talk against abuse or manipulation, it might come across better to actually be gentle and not use abusive or manipulative forms of communication.

It sounds like some guy asked for money or sex. You gave in. He left.

scraparcs · Oct 11, 2015

It happens. It's just some personalities are more prone to it than others, and I wouldn't call it a negative trait. I try to learn how to spot it more as I get older, but I'm not perfect. Roll with the punches and remember people are different from each other.

ChicanaRose · Sep 7, 2019

Gentle Lamb said:
I've had this happen more times than I can count, it's like they are vicious predators.

Was your gut telling you something during these encounters? Often times we brush off our intuitions, or they do things to distract us from tuning in to our intuitions.

ChicanaRose · Sep 7, 2019

Gentle Lamb said:
Yep. I'm only asking mainly women because I just need the support of my fellow sisters in Christ who've been in similar situations. It's frustrating that people even can treat each other this way, men towards women or women towards men!

The thing about manipulative people is that they rush and pressure you, so you don't have time and space to reflect. See below quotes about how God (Holy Spirit) and Satan works.

I've been through your experience and have learned to take it slow and take a break to reflect. For example, you don't need to respond to everything right away. You can say, "Let me think about it and get back to you."

(I am not aware of the source but found several of the below on the Internet)

God's Voice

Stills you
Leads you
Reassures you
Enlightens you
Encourages you
Comforts you
Calms you
Convicts you

Satan's Voice

Rushes you
Pushes you
Frightens you
Confuses you
Discourages you
Worries you
Obsesses you
Condemns you

bèlla · Sep 7, 2019

I think its important to surrender our connections to the Lord. I’ve only dated secular men and they didn’t exploit me.

I believe prudence is best. But paranoia is not of God. We are told to guard our hearts. Oftentimes a person’s desire for companionship leads them to set aside boundaries or allow euphoria to have its way and carry them too far.

It is our responsibility to test the spirit before we bring it to our bosom. We must determine if their odor hails from God or the other.

Above all, a man who walks with God is a gentleman. Do not cast your pearls to those whose behavior suggests otherwise.

Gentlemen value their lady. They protect her. And their esteem uplifts. It never diminishes her person or spirit.

On Manipulation

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