Log in
Register
Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
Forums
New posts
Forum list
Search forums
Leaderboards
Games
Our Blog
Blogs
New entries
New comments
Blog list
Search blogs
Credits
Transactions
Shop
Blessings: ✟0.00
Tickets
Open new ticket
Watched
Donate
Log in
Register
Search
Search titles only
By:
Search titles only
By:
More options
Toggle width
Share this page
Share this page
Share
Reddit
Pinterest
Tumblr
WhatsApp
Email
Share
Link
Menu
Install the app
Install
Forums
Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Physical & Life Sciences
Creation & Evolution
On DNA percent differences between taxa and YEC timelines
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Hans Blaster" data-source="post: 76249438" data-attributes="member: 396028"><p>If I understand one of the prior posts, we are seeing a counterclaim to the "rapid mutation would be needed" to explain post-Noachian human genetic diversity with variations present in the human survivors. Under this model there are *5* people that have to provide all of the genetic diversity of modern humans: Noah, Noah's wife (hereafter [wife]), and Noah's daughters-in-law ([DiLs], or [DiL1], [DiL2], and [DiL3]). If we consider only Mendelian genetics with 2 sites for 2 variants of each gene, we have 10 possible variants for genes to be passed to Noah's grandchildren. (What about Noah's sons? Their genes just came from Noah and [wife], so we need not worry about them, except...</p><p></p><p>Since Noah only has 3 sons and each only gets *one* of his variants for each gene, approximately 1/8 of the unique gene variants in Noah are not passed to any of his sons. This is also true of [wife]. Though there are 4 possible variants for each gene within the sons of Noah, on average only 3.5 are present.</p><p></p><p>Any human gene with more than 10 variants is ruled out by the Noah story, or rather the Noah story violates basic genetics without additional, postdiluvian mutations.</p><p></p><p>But wait, it gets worse...</p><p></p><p>The X chromosome has one copy in males and 2 in females, so you might think with 1 man and 4 women contributing there would be 9 copies with up to 9 variants of each gene. You'd be wrong. Fathers do not pass the X to their sons (or they'd be daughters) and since Noah isn't known to have surviving daughters his X doesn't make it to his sons, or grandchildren. So only at most 8 variants can make it to modern times on the X chromosome.</p><p></p><p>The mitochondrial DNA has some similar issues. This genetic material is passed from mother to child, so long there are at best 4 sources (4 women contributing to the genetics of the ark survivors). But this too runs in to the problem of Noah's sons. Thought they carried the mtDNA of [wife] they could not pass it on, so under the ark model, only 3 major lineages of mtDNA can exist in the modern population. The modern mutation rate is (as I recall) about once every 50 generations a single nucleotide is flipped, so there should be 3-5 differences in each of us relative to whichever of the [DiLs] we descend from matrilineally. (There are dozens of major mtDNA lineages, each with this kind of accumulated small mutations.)</p><p></p><p>We've got one more bit of genetic material to talk about -- the Y chromosome. Y is found in men and passed from father to son. the [DiLs] and [wife] don't contribute, only Noah. His sons would have had identical Y chromosomes and so would their sons, etc. All gene variants on the Y chromosome found in modern men would have to be from mutations in the last ~4000 years. There is no alternative.</p><p></p><p>So there you go, it's massive mutation after the flood, or the flood just didn't happen. Pick your poison.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hans Blaster, post: 76249438, member: 396028"] If I understand one of the prior posts, we are seeing a counterclaim to the "rapid mutation would be needed" to explain post-Noachian human genetic diversity with variations present in the human survivors. Under this model there are *5* people that have to provide all of the genetic diversity of modern humans: Noah, Noah's wife (hereafter [wife]), and Noah's daughters-in-law ([DiLs], or [DiL1], [DiL2], and [DiL3]). If we consider only Mendelian genetics with 2 sites for 2 variants of each gene, we have 10 possible variants for genes to be passed to Noah's grandchildren. (What about Noah's sons? Their genes just came from Noah and [wife], so we need not worry about them, except... Since Noah only has 3 sons and each only gets *one* of his variants for each gene, approximately 1/8 of the unique gene variants in Noah are not passed to any of his sons. This is also true of [wife]. Though there are 4 possible variants for each gene within the sons of Noah, on average only 3.5 are present. Any human gene with more than 10 variants is ruled out by the Noah story, or rather the Noah story violates basic genetics without additional, postdiluvian mutations. But wait, it gets worse... The X chromosome has one copy in males and 2 in females, so you might think with 1 man and 4 women contributing there would be 9 copies with up to 9 variants of each gene. You'd be wrong. Fathers do not pass the X to their sons (or they'd be daughters) and since Noah isn't known to have surviving daughters his X doesn't make it to his sons, or grandchildren. So only at most 8 variants can make it to modern times on the X chromosome. The mitochondrial DNA has some similar issues. This genetic material is passed from mother to child, so long there are at best 4 sources (4 women contributing to the genetics of the ark survivors). But this too runs in to the problem of Noah's sons. Thought they carried the mtDNA of [wife] they could not pass it on, so under the ark model, only 3 major lineages of mtDNA can exist in the modern population. The modern mutation rate is (as I recall) about once every 50 generations a single nucleotide is flipped, so there should be 3-5 differences in each of us relative to whichever of the [DiLs] we descend from matrilineally. (There are dozens of major mtDNA lineages, each with this kind of accumulated small mutations.) We've got one more bit of genetic material to talk about -- the Y chromosome. Y is found in men and passed from father to son. the [DiLs] and [wife] don't contribute, only Noah. His sons would have had identical Y chromosomes and so would their sons, etc. All gene variants on the Y chromosome found in modern men would have to be from mutations in the last ~4000 years. There is no alternative. So there you go, it's massive mutation after the flood, or the flood just didn't happen. Pick your poison. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Physical & Life Sciences
Creation & Evolution
On DNA percent differences between taxa and YEC timelines
Top
Bottom